CC in a post office?

This is a discussion on CC in a post office? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DaveH Once again, it is not 18 U.S.C. 930 w/ it's notice of the regulation posted at each public entrance that prhibites ...

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Thread: CC in a post office?

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Once again, it is not 18 U.S.C. 930 w/ it's notice of the regulation posted at each public entrance that prhibites carry in POs, it is 39 CFR 232.1 that clearly prohibits carrying firearms in POs.
    And CFRs MUST still comply with the underlying USC!!

    The authority to create CFRs, which are regulatory law, is embodied in a USC (legislatively passed law) and thus subservient to the USC. The intent of regulations is to put into place the mechanisms for enforcement of the law, NOT to "create new law" where none existed in the USC!! [Please NOTE: I am NOT addressing what you can/can't do in the USPO property, only "which is a superior authority".]

    My state has a similar setup with laws and regulations and during a hearing wrt a proposed regulation, I pointed out (to the lawyer who wrote it ) that what he proposed violated the law upon which it was based. He took great interest in what I said (and handed him as written testimony), was writing copious notes as I spoke and spoke to me about it further after the hearing concluded. End result is that no further action has been taken on his proposed regulations.

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  3. #62
    New Member Array dfleming's Avatar
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    I always wonder why someone would get so worried about 39 CFR 232.1 and 18 USC 930. You can't be searched without probable cause. According to the regulation, the post office security and postal inspectors can't search you unless you have been arrested. They can't search your vehicle unless you have been arrested. Learn to say "I don't consent to any searches. Am I being detained?" If the answer is no, walk away.

    Conceal your firearm. You carry it with the intent of using deadly force to protect your life and the lives of your family members. If you are afraid of a $50 fine, you won't have enough courage to pull the trigger to save your life. Leave the firearm at home if you can't even deal with post office regulations.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    And CFRs MUST still comply with the underlying USC!!

    The authority to create CFRs, which are regulatory law, is embodied in a USC (legislatively passed law) and thus subservient to the USC.



    But note that 39 CFR 232.1 conforms w/ 39 U.S.C. xxx and that 39 USC 410 exempts Post Offices from 18 USC 930 (being a statute dealing with Federal facilities in general).
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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfleming View Post
    I always wonder why someone would get so worried about 39 CFR 232.1 and 18 USC 930. You can't be searched without probable cause.
    Enter the Terry Stop w/ a pat down for officer safety w/o probable cause leading to the discovery of a gun and, depending on the State you live in, the potential for lose of your CHP.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    On average, how many firemans do you sell each year?
    I have been averaging around 20 guns per week. Gun sales are growing but still a small part of the business. We sell a good amount of supply's for hunters such as game calls, archery equipment, cross bows.

    Why do you ask?

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  7. #66
    New Member Array dfleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Enter the Terry Stop w/ a pat down for officer safety w/o probable cause leading to the discovery of a gun and, depending on the State you live in, the potential for lose of your CHP.
    A Terry Stop requires reasonable suspicion that a person is committing a crime or has committed a crime. The postal regulation states that you can be searched only after arrest. Suppose you are searched prior to arrest by a postal inspector and he finds a gun. He can then be charged and have to pay the $50 fine also.

    Some permit holders are just sheep with guns. They quake in fear of losing their permit and being arrested for minor violations. I don't think they are capable of defending themselves if they are that afraid of state agents. They'll fall apart completely when faced with real danger.

  8. #67
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    Carry in a Post Office here is specifically prohibited by Nevada law, regardless of federal law.
    "We are the people our parents warned us about!" J. Buffett

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfleming View Post
    A Terry Stop requires reasonable suspicion that a person is committing a crime or has committed a crime. The postal regulation states that you can be searched only after arrest. Suppose you are searched prior to arrest by a postal inspector and he finds a gun. He can then be charged and have to pay the $50 fine also.
    Don't confuse a Terry Stop Pat-down with a Search.
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainman View Post
    Good point. There are still a few boxes on the streets though. But the feds may claim sovereignty over a 30ft radius from the box I just turn the flag up on my mailbox and use web postage to avoid the experience.
    Hate to break the news, but your mailbox is federal property also.

  11. #70
    Member Array Corwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Hate to break the news, but your mailbox is federal property also.
    Well then they can reimburse me for the cost of it and pay me for my time putting it up. And they can come out and replace it the next time some kid bashes it with a baseball bat and charge him with a federal crime while they're at it.

    Yeah... right... federal property... what a hoot.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfleming View Post
    I always wonder why someone would get so worried about 39 CFR 232.1 and 18 USC 930. You can't be searched without probable cause. According to the regulation, the post office security and postal inspectors can't search you unless you have been arrested. They can't search your vehicle unless you have been arrested. Learn to say "I don't consent to any searches. Am I being detained?" If the answer is no, walk away.

    Conceal your firearm. You carry it with the intent of using deadly force to protect your life and the lives of your family members. If you are afraid of a $50 fine, you won't have enough courage to pull the trigger to save your life. Leave the firearm at home if you can't even deal with post office regulations.
    Agreed!. . . . I am with 100% brother!
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  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Hate to break the news, but your mailbox is federal property also.
    Yea, right!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
    Well then they can reimburse me for the cost of it and pay me for my time putting it up. And they can come out and replace it the next time some kid bashes it with a baseball bat and charge him with a federal crime while they're at it.

    Yeah... right... federal property... what a hoot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Yea, right!
    I believe that if your mail box is vandalized or mail stolen from it and reported the Postal Inspectors will investigate and if caught it is a felony. However I am sure you will need to make the repairs/replacement on your dime and/or pick your mail up off the ground.
    There must be a member here that works for the postal service and can answer this.
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  15. #74
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    I believe that if your mail box is vandalized or mail stolen from it and reported the Postal Inspectors will investigate and if caught it is a felony. However I am sure you will need to make the repairs/replacement on your dime and/or pick your mail up off the ground.
    There must be a member here that works for the postal service and can answer this.
    If there is no mail receptacle, there will be NO mail delivery. Please note that a slot in the door qualifies as a receptacle.

    I wonder how ep1953 thinks the box inside my door mail slot is federal property?
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #75
    Member Array JohnWFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfleming View Post
    I always wonder why someone would get so worried about 39 CFR 232.1 and 18 USC 930. You can't be searched without probable cause. According to the regulation, the post office security and postal inspectors can't search you unless you have been arrested. They can't search your vehicle unless you have been arrested. Learn to say "I don't consent to any searches. Am I being detained?" If the answer is no, walk away.

    Conceal your firearm. You carry it with the intent of using deadly force to protect your life and the lives of your family members. If you are afraid of a $50 fine, you won't have enough courage to pull the trigger to save your life. Leave the firearm at home if you can't even deal with post office regulations.
    I agree with this statement. If I am carrying concealed, I will not take the time to unholster my weapon in the paking lot down the street from the post office, with the possibility of someone seeing me handling my weapon in the car, which can open up a whole new batch of headaches....... I will walk in the post office, do my business, and walk out without anyone ever knowing I was carrying....
    I didn't realize that this was such an issue........
    "A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington

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