I hope this doesnt sound stupid! - Page 3

I hope this doesnt sound stupid!

This is a discussion on I hope this doesnt sound stupid! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter Glaser Safety Slugs. Expensive but, hey...your potential location/scenario is exactly what they were designed for. Scroll halfway down this linked page. ...

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Thread: I hope this doesnt sound stupid!

  1. #31
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Glaser Safety Slugs. Expensive but, hey...your potential location/scenario is exactly what they were designed for.

    Scroll halfway down this linked page. Decent review.
    Corbon

    I tested the very earliest Glasers (way back when) and I was satisfied.

    I also remember the Glaser testing on some decently large sized live oinkers and the performance was satisfactory.

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    Glaser Safety Slug
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Glaser Safety Slug is a frangible bullet made by Glaser Safety Slug, Inc., a small American ammunition company based in Sturgis, South Dakota (the same location as Cor-Bon). The company was founded in 1975 by Armin Glaser the same year as the Glaser Safety Slug was developed by Jack Canon.

    History
    The original round was a hand-made hollow point bullet filled with No. 12 birdshot (0.05") with a flat polymer cap. To improve ballistic performance, a polymer-tipped round ball was introduced in 1987, and the current compressed core form was first sold in 1988. The formulation of the polymer was also changed in 1994 to improve fragmentation reliability.

    Performance
    The company produces bullets in around twenty calibers, from .25 to .45 for pistols and from .223 to .30-06 for rifles. Each caliber comes in two forms, 'blue' and 'silver', the latter having greater penetrating power due to the use of No. 6 birdshot rather than No. 12.

    The projectile in the cartridge is of a much lighter weight than more conventional types of cartridges and so the projectiles always exit the bore at significantly higher muzzle velocities. The current bullet has a core of very tightly packed lead pellets. On impact, the bullet fractures along manufactured stress lines in the jacketóimparting all the bullet's energy very quickly rather than over-penetrating a target or ricocheting on a miss. The extreme light weight and fragility of the projectile make it unsuitable for long range firing or against protected targets.

    The bullet design can produce large shallow wounds in flesh while failing to pass through structural barriers thicker than drywall or sheet metal. However, the wounds produced by these cartridges fail to produce penetration of depth and quality in targets as do more conventional bullet designs that retain all or most of their mass in a single piece. Some suggest that this lack of penetration makes them and other frangible ammunition suitable for use in environments where there is concern that a bullet that misses its intended target or passes through its intended target might accidentally strike a non-enemy.

    Usage
    The United States Federal Air Marshals Service tested and used the Glaser Safety Slug extensively in the 1970s and 80s on board commercial passenger aircraft to defend against hijackers.[1] Published reports indicate that Air Marshals are now issued SIG-Sauer P229 pistols with a 12 round capacity firing conventional jacketed hollow point ammunition in .357 SIG caliber.

    Criticisms
    Compared to conventional ammunition, the rounds are very expensive (on the order of 15 to 20 times more) because of their design. Some sources [who?] report that they are less accurate, and that wounds vary greatly depending on impact angles.

    Use of these cartridges in hand guns for defense/combat situations is controversial because some [who?] argue that a handgun simply does not have the barrel length or powder capacity to accelerate the super light projectile to the point that it can reliably produce wounds deep enough to incapacitate a person.

    Similarly, using these cartridges in a rifle against large game is controversial because of the poor penetration that is achieved. However, use of these cartridges in rifle calibers against human targets is less controversial because some[who?] argue that the cartridges do produce acceptably effective wounds in man-size targets, while adding a certain safety benefit.


    Agreed. Other options would be the Taurus Judge with #8 or #9 birdshot (many will tell you that this is pointless for self defense however), and another option perhaps a short barrel shotgun with birdshot (or even BB). I've got shells with #12 birdshot that I have used before in apartment settings.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.


  2. #32
    Member Array joecs1's Avatar
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    Its a jewelry store. walls are hollow and do not go up to the roof. It stops about 12" from the roof line. there is some type of fire resistant paneling(which doesnt look thick, but its not cinder block). the register is deep in the store with full length counter and watch bench side by side(providing cover). all the jewelry cases are made of glass including store front jewelry cases followed by large pane's of 1/2 glass approx. I have thought about the glaser saftey slugs, but am very concerned about their ineffectiveness to stop someone. i appreciate all the input so far.
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  3. #33
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    Talking non-lethal disorientation devices

    Consider non-lethal disorientation devices.

    If I were in your shoes, I would have switches at strategic locations around my store that, when triggered, would power off all lights, activate an ear shattering pulse alarm, send an automatic alarm to the police department, and also trigger disorienting strobes(best for night time).

    You should practice different scenarios with this system. If you decide to employ a firearm, you should practice very carefully in every possible situation. Disorientation devices work well for defense because of this simple fact; you know itís coming! The combatant does not!

    For the most part this kind of system would most likely scare the living hell out of any assailant to the point of mass confusion (probably wet themselves). I would also install some sort of bullet proof glass panel behind the register so you can take cover and defend yourself. The glass panel would allow you to take quick cover and still see whatís going on. Donít forget to bullet-proof the counter under the glass (you donít want to get shot in the sexual organs lol)

    This link shows smoke screens. Might be expensive, but itís a great idea (and really really cool).
    YouTube - Police files - Burglary - armed robbery - Bank hold up all protected by Smokecloak - Smokeshield

    p.s. You could also go for the hat trick and rig the system to spray a harmless, but otherwise extremely foul smelling substance. The more sensory organs that you attack, the more successful you will be. Good luck!

  4. #34
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    if I were setting this up I would have 1/2 inch plate built into in fount of the counter with a cover over it to keep the sheep from spazing. I would also employ a lighting system via a foot switch.
    the lights would go out on the place and very bright flood lights would come on from the area around the register and pointing toward the fount of the store. the lighting would be set to hid the register and not back light it.
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  5. #35
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    I'm glad you asked this personally - this was my next point of research. We (wife, daughter, myself) spend a lot of time traveling in our 45' motorhome and while not the same situation, there are obviously considerations - crowded resorts/campgrounds, etc. I like the idea of the Glasers and will be picking some up (as soon as I find them in-stock!) Thanks to QKShooter for posting that info and thanks to you, Joe for asking about this - not stupid at all.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecs1 View Post
    I own a store in a strip mall, type shopping center. the walls are sheet rocked and my register is deep into the store, away frome large store front windows. My question is this, knowing a BG threatens with a weapon of some kind, there is really no place that gives me a good tactical advantage and 1 of 2 decent back stops. In order to have either one, it would put me out in the open. What would you do, keep cover and fire w/o a back drop, or expose yourself and hope you dint get killed trying to take the threat down with a back stop?
    I have designed benches for judges over the years and other very secure environments for banks an money rooms.

    It sounds like you are in the open most of the time.

    What you can do is get a panel of some 1/4" fiber reinforced ballistic material. some is fiberglass and some is fiber Kevlar.

    Install this in your counter.

    It won't help much if you are hiding behind the counter an an assailant shoots 12 GA buck shot at you over the counter, but through the counter, it will stop a .357 Mag.

    You counter should have what I call a knee hole space where your shotgun is and where you can duck into.

    I also recommend a large noise. Loud music can throw off a
    prep, similar to a flash-bang device use by tactical forces.

    What It can do is give you a couple seconds to get your gun out and take control.

    Chicago Bullet-proof is one source I use for ballistics armor.
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  7. #37
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    You could be anywhere in the store when the opportunity to draw your own gun presents itself. It's great to be concerned, but outside of ridiculous expense of building a backstop that covers all walls and/or frangible ammo, the best you can do is to try and survive yourself. You are less likely to miss anyway if you are less exposed and thus, hopefully a teeny bit less panicky. Gotta play the scenario as it unfolds, but GREATLY increasing the chances of your death by exposing yourself (and taking the time and thought to do so!) in order do SLIGHTLY decrease the chances of a bystander getting hurt doesn't seem like good math.
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  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    ...I also recommend a large noise. Loud music can throw off a perp, similar to a flash-bang device use by tactical forces....
    Consider a ridiculously-amplified mp3 of fingernails on a blackboard, perhaps combined with screeching tires? Ooo, that sounds like fun to make and test on kid sister... or a classroom of miscreants...
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  9. #39
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    Consider a ridiculously-amplified mp3 of fingernails on a blackboard, perhaps combined with screeching tires? Ooo, that sounds like fun to make and test on kid sister... or a classroom of miscreants...
    Actually, Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus would be more effective.
    Last edited by REM4444; February 14th, 2010 at 07:08 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #40
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    I thought the BG was the back stop. I'm serious. You will rarely have perfect conditons when a crime occurs. My answer to you is do what you need to do to protect yourself, backstop or not. Make your round count and you won't need a back stop.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetic View Post
    My answer to you is do what you need to do to protect yourself, backstop or not. Make your round count and you won't need a back stop.
    How does this add to the topic? Come on man, don't be "that guy".

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetic View Post
    Make your round count and you won't need a back stop.
    That's technically true, but...

    one of the rules is to know what's between you and the threat, and what's BEYOND the threat. In this case, if I'm reading the layout of the store correctly, it could be a crowded sidewalk or parking lot.

    The OP's question is absolutely one worth asking and pondering.
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