Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged) - Page 3

Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged)

This is a discussion on Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guardian Not as bad as a shooting galary with your family being out there in the middle of it or my family ...

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Thread: Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged)

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Not as bad as a shooting galary with your family being out there in the middle of it or my family with people unqualified ...
    What "shooting gallery"? Where? Hasn't ever happened in the USA, so far as I know, certainly not in response to not force-feeding knowledge of statutes via required study, and certainly not in response to forcing registration, tracking, reapplication for touching a gun in a certain way.

    If a person commits murder, he's going to prison or getting the "chair." If a person commits legitimate aggravated assault or some lesser crime, then he's going to pay for that as well. Fine. Such people will then learn the standards which they have a responsibility to meet. The vast majority are bright enough to realize they're on tap to live up to such responsibilities anyway. I mean, the rest of a person's existence is exactly that. One more topical area isn't that tough to acquire, when it comes right down to it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  2. #32
    Member Array phantom1984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowdler View Post
    My heart skipped a beat when I read

    "Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House" posted by Center of MASS

    I thought this was going to be in Massachusetts! ...if only
    Ye me to Thats what i thought about Kentucky. My permit is due for renewal in 2 months and i was thinking Hot damn I don't have to spend the $60 bucks.
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    Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    Bad idea! However, we assume that most local Wyoming folks have been brought up with guns in the wide open spaces. But, we can also foresee some bad sad sensational stories caused by people who just get or buy guns and then start carrying them all around town. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Our CCW classes emphasized the responsibilities and potential legal and civil consequences of CCW and making mistakes. No problem for anyone to have guns in the home, as long as they were not criminals and are reasonably sane and well behaved. Drunks with guns having fun in bars and cars? Who's the best in the old west?
    It hasn't happened in Alaska or Vermont.

    OTOH, drunks with guns having fun in bars and cars seems to be the norm in Chicago, NY city, Washington DC, etc.

    Something wrong with the logic of all gun bans -- even partial ones such as requiring permission to exercise the RKBA.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Not as bad as a shooting galary
    This is the same cries the antis say when each state finally permits carying...they say hat blood will run in the streets...blah blah blah. It doesn't happen. I can't believe people actually fall for this garbage...but apprently some can be fooled. Unless we have one of the brady bunch in our midst. Either way there is a disconnect from logic and reason being exibited for us all to see.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  5. #35
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Gosh darn it! Take a CCW class and shoot a gun at a range for a couple of hours for $75! No problem at home but it can save you from prison or being sued and losing that home.
    Last edited by Paco; February 13th, 2010 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Language

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    If you are a Montana resident and you decide to travel, will you be able to carry in other states? Reciprocity is based on the states involved having a screening process and issuing permits. Just curious.
    Gun bill gains backing

    It would allow concealed weapons without permits

    Gun bill gains backing
    CHEYENNE -- A proposal that would allow people in Wyoming to carry concealed weapons without permits passed an initial legislative hurdle on Thursday.

    If the bill passes, Wyoming would become only the third state in the nation, after Vermont and Alaska, to allow conceal-carry without a permit.

    Under House Bill 113, the only people not allowed to carry concealed weapons in the state would be people under the age of 21, convicted felons, those convicted of drug-related charges, alcoholics, those with physical disabilities that impair their ability to handle firearms, and people who have lived in the state less than six months.

    Currently, Wyoming residents must apply every five years for concealed weapons permits.

    While most of the restrictions right now on acquiring a permit are listed in the bill, current permit rules also require applicants to show proficiency in using firearms and forbid issuing permits to people who have been judged legally incompetent or who have been committed to mental institutions.

    Rep. Lorraine Quarberg, the Thermopolis Republican sponsoring the bill, said the legislation is meant simply to spell out rights that are already guaranteed under the Wyoming Constitution and the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    "I just believe people have the right to protect themselves and defend themselves," Quarberg said. "And I want to make sure that we put it in statute and people know they can do it."

    Even if the bill becomes law, Wyoming would still issue concealed-weapons permits to residents wishing to carry their firearms across state lines, as many other states require permits before allowing them to carry concealed weapons there, Quarberg said.

    Gun owners would also still be prohibited from bringing their firearms into courtrooms, police stations, jails, bars, governmental meetings, athletic events, schools, or houses of worship.

    Some of the six state representatives who voted against introducing the bill said no longer requiring permits could pose a danger to law enforcement officers in Wyoming.

    Rep. Pete Jorgensen, D-Jackson, went further, saying that loosening gun control regulations, except for hunting, would be dangerous to everyone.

    "I've been in situations in other countries working where I'm glad I didn't have a gun," said Jorgensen, who served overseas in the U.S. Army. "I've not sure I would've controlled myself."
    [Emphasis added]
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    This is the same cries the antis say when each state finally permits carying...they say hat blood will run in the streets...blah blah blah. It doesn't happen. I can't believe people actually fall for this garbage...but apprently some can be fooled. Unless we have one of the brady bunch in our midst. Either way there is a disconnect from logic and reason being exibited for us all to see.
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

    Absolutely

    We hear the same cry that blood will run in the streets, fender-bender shooting, shootouts every time someone bump shopping carts in WalMart, etc from the Anti-RKBA mouthpieces every time a bill is introduced.

    Hasn't happened.

    OTOH, shooting continue in "Unarmed Victim Zones" and conversely crime goes down when gun bans are relaxed.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Understand, but let's compare the size population wise of their biggest city with the average medium size city of most states south.

    Burlington Vermont - 38,000+ Wichita Falls TX 107,000

    Anchorage Alaska - 230,000+ Arlington TX 500,000+

    Let's not even compare State populations with large cities and folks allowed to CC carry without a permit.

    I understand Open Carry, but actually if you compare Open Carry folks to the General Population, it's a small fraction of the population.
    The size of the city means nothing, percentages of problems, crazies, violence, etc. are very similar when scaled to the population. Alaska and Vermont have their share of nuts, incompetents, and inexperienced gun owners that can all carry if they choose and yet there is no big spike in gun violence over any state that requires training and background checks. Just because the law allows people to exercise a right (how bass ackwards is that?) doesn't mean the sky is going to fall. The vast majority of gun owners are upstanding, law abiding citizens that would not suddenly "go rogue" if given the opportunity to carry without a permit.

    The people we would have to worry about are the same ones we worry about now, regardless of the laws, because criminals don't respect the law to begin with.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    There is no required test in Indiana where I live and no such thing has happened.
    Same deal here in PA. No class of any kind is required, yet we PA gun owners and carriers seem to be able to figure out when we can legally use our weapons, and there's no 'blood running in the streets'. However, as I said recently in another thread, the antis in pro's clothing just ignore that.

  10. #40
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    The downside to not having a permit is without a permit you can't carry in reciprocating states,no permit no carry,It would be great to have no permit carry in all 50 states,but with only a couple doing it you would still need a non resident that reciprocates with states you travel too or you are limited to the state you live in
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    There is no required test in Indiana where I live and no such thing has happened. Please form an opinion based on facts and not just emotional dribble. Please cite some eveidence of where things have turned into a shooting gallery in states that don't have tests. I'll wait as long as it takes. You can look on the internet to find all of the requirements for each state CCW permit...then you can point to which states have turned into "shooting galleries" as a result.

    amazing.
    Read the news my friend, read the papers, emotional dribble, not by far, it's on every evening of deaths by weapons and guns, sure they search for it, emotional dribble, not by a long shot.

    I'm not saying every state would turn into a shooting galary. I was referring to your point only by just stating my view. I'll let the evening news and papers speak for me and now you want to open up the states to no permits period. Again just my view, but my case is made right here with watch the news, read the papers, now open up millions more.

    Like I said, I can't change your mind, I can state my view, call it what you want, I won't insult you. I'm looking outside the box.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  12. #42
    Member Array HahnsXD's Avatar
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    Would this apply to non-residents in the state? I'll be in WY later this year and was planning on OC'ing but would CC if I could legally...
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I did. You did, as well, since "gun nut" and the folks we're attempting to keep from acquiring firearms are, by any other name, criminals. They are the target of such statutes, and they are who we're speaking of, whom we'd prefer to not acquire firearms. (Unless we're all missing something, unless you're actually speaking of upstanding people who shouldn't be acquiring firearms.)



    But military bases have ammo dumps, tanks and other sensitive items. Nuclear plants have access to the grid, and the potential for catastrophic leaks a la the "China Syndrome." John Q. Public merely has his life on the line. On the grand scale of things, that's not really in the same category.

    I'm all for having second or third layers. But additional layers aren't always good. They aren't, not when they're superfluous and ineffectual. And I think it's hard to support the idea that background checks actually achieve the goal they're ostensibly designed to achieve. Thus, if they don't really work, why have the beautiful second layer they represent?



    It's superfluous. And it, along with registration laws, go a heck of a long way toward setting the preliminaries ahead of a general confiscation, in future. It doesn't really work, and it's got a huge potential downside. Seems enough to me to jettison it.



    Whether he's allowed or not hardly keeps him from doing so, if he so chooses. That's the point.

    And, the mere fact a person's going to get strung by the toes until dead (or at least very old) should provide plenty of incentive to dissuade non-criminals from daring to wield arms they are patently incapable of firing without killing themselves and others. VT and AK should be shining examples of how little blood is likely to spill via such a change.



    Am not interested in "leveling" any field. I'm just saying that a superfluous statute that has little hope of keeping firearms from those who really shouldn't have them doesn't have much purpose being on the books.



    Those who want to acquire guns do so. Only upstanding people jump through all the hoops. And those same people will tend to see the clear threat of being utterly incompetent in the eyes of the law when daring to claim they knew what they were doing when firing against a person.

    Seems to me a simple pamphlet could be issued with every firearms purchase, as an incentive and a reminder of the penalties involved for irresponsibly wielding the tool. But it seems a bit strange to expect the requirements to change much in the way of the average person's knowledge of or access to firearms, or the related use-of-force and self-defense statutes.

    Again, if it were such a bad thing, why didn't VT and AK implode? Population density doesn't explain it. It's more a matter of latitude, as in: give the people the latitude to belly up to the responsibility, and they will. The criminals won't, and by that difference they shall be known.

    You have some valid points here and like I said, I won't be able to change anyones views here, didn't expect to, but opening up no permits and anyone to carry will cause problems sure enough. My use of military installations and nuclear power plants was making a point and it still does, second precautions never hurt no matter how large of a scale or how small of a scale in my view.

    I didn't mention criminal and my neighbor is law abiding, but a nut, that is not the same as being a criminal, I just don't want to see him toting a gun and a pamphlet won't help him, a course and time on a firing range might make a dent. I spent a good many years in the military handling firearms as a cop and there are some folks that just shouldn't be armed period and their law abiding and a course and firing range might help that if done right (my view only here).

    Population density does seem to play a part in it, crime is higher in bigger cities then in smaller cities on average, so population density does play into all factors to include this and will matter in this also in my view. The more people you have, the more people will take advantage of being able to do it and the more incidents.

    Thanks ccw9mm, you are a reasonable person who I enjoy having a conversation with who does not see the need to insult anyone unlike some who are not worth my time any longer. Like I stated, I would welcome it personally, but I can fear it it also.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  14. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    This is the same cries the antis say when each state finally permits carying...they say hat blood will run in the streets...blah blah blah. It doesn't happen. I can't believe people actually fall for this garbage...but apprently some can be fooled. Unless we have one of the brady bunch in our midst. Either way there is a disconnect from logic and reason being exibited for us all to see.
    Apparently you don't read my post very carefully or you wouldn't make such statements, but alas, I can't expect all to use what God gave us to play pro and con in this can we partner? To be young again!
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    I didn't mention criminal and my neighbor is law abiding, but a nut, that is not the same as being a criminal ...
    Semantics, I think. This discussion is about criminality, about commission of actions against the law, and about the potential increased threat of that if certain proposed steps are taken. In such a discussion, the reason we bring up "rocks" and "nut cases" and other such things in a discussion about threats is as it relates to the criminality involving such things. The only thing we're concerned with, in case of a nut, is the potential threat of criminal acts as a result of that person blowing sideways and harming others. Thus, "criminals" having been mentioned. That's what was in my mind while reading between the lines and seeing what was being said. Didn't mean to be a pain, really. Apologies if it came off that way.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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