Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged)

This is a discussion on Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Adkjoe I don't want to start an argument but I read a couple pages of posts in this thread and someone said ...

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Thread: Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged)

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adkjoe View Post
    I don't want to start an argument but I read a couple pages of posts in this thread and someone said opening up no permits will cause problems. First of all what problems?

    Even in other states all you have to do is pass a background check or put a couple shots into a target, really what is the big deal people have with citizens carrying guns without permits.

    Even being able to carry without a permit here most people don't. 85% of the people I know don't carry a gun, just because theirs no permits doesn't mean EVERYONE will be armed, and if they are good for them.
    All was well said, I just clipped a few insights that spoke to me.

    As you stated, several states, including mine, require no training, just the background check. So really....they just do it as a (unfortunate) govt tracking method.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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  3. #77
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    My wife and I were thinking of Wyoming as one of our retirement choices. This just moved it up a notch or two in the list.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

  4. #78
    Member Array aric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmDubb View Post
    Im not too sure if I like this idea.. I wouldnt want every joe schmoe around to be carrying. I love the idea of being able to as a PRIVALEDGE. I think having to get a permit is the best way to carry legally. I mean their are too many crazy people out there with guns, and letting those crazy gun owners carry around could prove to be hazardous. Just my 2cents though...

    I can't agree. I don't support gun control.
    That joe schmoe and crazy gun owners are US citizens and if they can posses a firearm, they should be able to carry it.

  5. #79
    Member Array Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmDubb View Post
    Im not too sure if I like this idea.. I wouldnt want every joe schmoe around to be carrying.
    Gawd, I love this!!

    Why is it that every time a State tries to take a step forward with RKBA, there are people on both sides of the issue believing that the State is trying to shove a GLOCK in the waistband of every Tom, Dick and Harry in the State, violent felon or not?

    Does anyone really believe that a firearm is going to magically appear in the hands all 500,000 residents of Wyoming if this is passed?

    If so, I'm moving there to collect my free gun!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BmDubb View Post
    I mean their are too many crazy people out there with guns, and letting those crazy gun owners carry around could prove to be hazardous. Just my 2cents though...
    ...and guess what? Those crazy gun owners are already carrying around their iron.

    Do you really think that passing gun control will keep the crooks unarmed?

    Gosh, maybe it does. Chicago and DC seem to pretty free of crime.

    Just so you know, I am one of those "crazy gun owners", and my State lets me keep my permit, even though I never conceal like I know they wish I would.
    Kevin Jensen
    Utah State Researcher,
    www.opencarry.org

  6. #80
    Member Array Carry4MyFam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmDubb View Post
    Im not too sure if I like this idea.. I wouldnt want every joe schmoe around to be carrying. I love the idea of being able to as a PRIVALEDGE. I think having to get a permit is the best way to carry legally. I mean their are too many crazy people out there with guns, and letting those crazy gun owners carry around could prove to be hazardous. Just my 2cents though...
    Maybe some of us can pay an extra privaledge tax for you as well ........that might make you feel better...... or extra privaledged ! PRIVALEDGE, ha.... I have rights and so do my joe schmoe brothers and sisters!
    Christian/Father/Husband/American/NRA Benefactor Life Member/GOA Life Member/USAF NCO/Operations; Provide Comfort/Northern Watch/Southern Watch/Enduring Freedom/Iraqi Freedom/TBD....

  7. #81
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    ^ absolutley I agree Arcic.

    BMDUBB, what makes you fit to carry a weapon? We don't know you, the person who gave you your permit doesn't know you, how do we know your not crazy Joe Schmoe as you stated, because you passed a Background check or took an 8 hour class? There are plenty of felons and crazy people out there who have never been caught and would qualify for a permit in just about any state.

    Ask yourself, why do you carry a a gun? most will say to protect my family and myself, which is a very good if not the best reason. Protecting yourself doesn't just come in situations you see in Hollywood, BG's are not just felons looking to rob or kill you. BG's, evil, whatever you want to call it comes in all shapes and sizes, it can be children, felons, mentally disabled persons, etc... What's to stop a valid CCW holder from blowing his top and going postal? How does a background check and at the most a CCW coarse make a person responsible or sane? It's life that's why you carry a deadly weapon. Good for Wyoming, people are finally starting to realise that guns are not the problem. It's been said many times, if someone wants to kill you they will find a way and they won't do it legally.

    All a ccw means to me is either you haven't been caught yet or your sane "on paper". Everyone of you on this forum myself included has broken the law at some point and to some degree, and every single one of you has made a bad and irresponsible decision at some point, having a CCW doesn't make you a good person or a good decision maker. Kids that no body suspected go to school and shoot there classmates, anyone is capable of anything and all regulation does is make it easier for the would be survivors to be victims. It's America anyone can get a gun if they want permits or not, were humans we do messed up things everyone in all walks of life has the right to be prepared for the unexpected and the unknown weather that be another crazed ccw holder, a violent felon, a drugged up junky, or what you THOUGHT was an average Joe.

    All you who post and say we need permits and some sort of gun control sound like your Chicago politicians, Well I hope you get your votes. keep ignoring the real problem and blame it on something else, I mean that's what your good at right? Don't bother to look at the facts because that would be crazy. If you don't like it moved to Canada where you don't have to worry, only BG's will have weapons and you can die like a good victim and make the headlines.
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  8. #82
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    The anti's have yet to convince me to abandon 2A, and the onus is on them.

  9. #83
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    Scares me some of the anti garbage coming out of gun owners mouths, no wonder we have the stupid laws we have. I live in Wyoming and think I'm pretty qualified to say that we are not only able to live with this change in the law, but we never needed a stupid permitting process to begin with. Also I will tell some of you just like most Wyoming folk would is that if you don't like our laws or way of life here than stay the heck out of our state. Now that I got that off my chest.

    My wife and I were thinking of Wyoming as one of our retirement choices. This just moved it up a notch or two in the list.
    If you decide to come to Wyoming to visit or to live let me know ahead of time and the wife and I will cook up some nice steaks on the grill and show you what Wyoming hospitality is all about.
    "Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" -Benjamin Franklin-
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  10. #84
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    Here is a link to the bill.

    http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2010/Introduced/HB0113.pdf

    This bill will only apply to Wyoming residents who have lived in the state for more than 6 months from the time they became a resident.

    Nonresidents will only be allowed to carry concealed if their state has reciprocity with Wyoming. Wyoming legislatures are also tackling the reciprocity issue that we encountered last year.

    http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2010/Introduced/SF0026.pdf

    Wyoming is also tackling the "Made in Wyoming" federal oversight of firearms. Very similar to Montana's legislation that they passed last year.

    http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2010/Introduced/HB0095.pdf

    I would be shocked if all of these did not make it to the Gov's desk. God I love Wyoming!!

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    You have to remember that there are tons of responsible gun owners that want to carry, but refuse to have their name on a list. This will be a huge break for them.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    I go both ways on this issue. A couple hundred years ago, everyone carried a weapon and relied only upon once self for protection. Then as “civilization” grew, the need to carry a weapon diminished, and law abiding citizens stop.

    On the other hand criminals never did stop carrying a weapon and in today’s world with kids, must less adults not being afraid of the consequences of their actions in our legal system, we must once again, resort to carrying weapons, and relying upon one’s own self for protection.

    So should there be a means of confirming to law authority’s quickly that this person is a law abiding citizen, and is therefore allow to carry a weapon.

    I think so.

    And if for no other reason than that, I’d like to see states keep their CCL program.

  13. #87
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    So should there be a means of confirming to law authority’s quickly that this person is a law abiding citizen, and is therefore allow to carry a weapon.

    I think so.

    And if for no other reason than that, I’d like to see states keep their CCL program.
    So a background check proves your a law abiding citizen? Just means you haven't been caught yet. Common guys, the people that issue you a permit don't know you from a hole in the wall all they know is your not a CAUGHT felon and your a good boy on paper, that's it. Read post #81 at the top of the page. even without permits it's still illegal for a felon to carry a weapon so nothing changes except it's now easier for people to protect themselves. Some of you guys are ridiculous we don't have permits here in VT and we do just fine, no permits doesn't mean everyone is going to go out and buy a gun and commit that crime they always wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
    Scares me some of the anti garbage coming out of gun owners mouths, no wonder we have the stupid laws we have. I live in Wyoming and think I'm pretty qualified to say that we are not only able to live with this change in the law, but we never needed a stupid permitting process to begin with. Also I will tell some of you just like most Wyoming folk would is that if you don't like our laws or way of life here than stay the heck out of our state.
    I'm with ya, my states living proof that we don't need a permit process or regulation and we think the same way, if you need someone to tell you what to do, tell you what you can and can't own or carry in your pocket then go live in Illinois where you belong.

    Please tell me how a background check or an 8 hour class makes a person responsible and sane.
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  14. #88
    pax
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    Senior Member Array pax's Avatar
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    The sky is falling!

    Blood in the streets!

    Wild west!

    Shoot-outs over parking spaces!

    ... errr, um.

    Listen, all you naysayers, I'll listen to your panic-mongering on one condition, and one condition only: if you are able to explain clearly how it is that Alaska and Vermont (both of which already have permitless carry) somehow don't have all the problems you're anticipating will happen in Wyoming when this passes.

    Oh, and while you're at it, you can explain the HUGE difference in accidental shooting rates between, say, Oregon's permit holders & Washington state's permit holders. Likewise the huge difference in negligent behavior and the huge number of permit holders behaving badly in Washington state that make national news. Oregon requires training before getting a carry permit, while Washington does not. No training required here whatsoever. Nobody here has even had to take so much as a minimal course in safe gun handling before getting a carry permit, so of course we have blood running in the streets, wild west behavior, shoot-outs over parking spaces, and all the rest -- right? And of course there's a huge difference between our crime rates and accidental shooting rates compared to Oregon, where training is required. Shouldn't be too hard to find that huge difference, if there is one.

    You could look it up. Report back when you have.

    pax
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  15. #89
    New Member Array don7760's Avatar
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    The only bad thing is...

    The only bad thing about CC with no permit is that you have no resaprosaposty (i know that is spelled wrong) with other states if you have no permit for them to honor.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    So should there be a means of confirming to law authority’s quickly that this person is a law abiding citizen, and is therefore allow to carry a weapon.

    .
    I considered this myself, briefly. I thought, well, it's a quick way for a LEO to see that I'm not a threat, that my gun is legally carried.

    And then I thought that I'd be a dumb and soon dead LEO if I went by the little CC or whatever they see when they run my plate during a traffic stop.....the LEO should always approach with great caution, you never know what the state of mind is of that suspect.

    That piece of paper or designation really confirms only the past, not the present.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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