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Bill To Allow Concealed Carry Without Permit Passes House(merged)

12K views 128 replies 62 participants last post by  HahnsXD 
#1 ·
A bill in Wyoming just passed the house that will allow concealed carry without a permit. Now that is pressing the 2nd Amendment issue to the max!

Have to admire those ranchers up in Wyoming!


You can read about it at:
Gun Rights Report
 
#102 ·
No one ever said Vermont was crime free. Where does it say that any of those stats are firearm related? I'll admit, I read the Burlington free press everyday and 99.9% of the crime here is sexual. Theirs a lot of horny backwoods folk I won't deny that. We have tops 1 murder a year, last year a guy shot himself with a shotgun, that was the only murder on paper for the whole year. Those stats you posted I won't deny but I can almost guarantee you there no more gun related than anywhere else you compare to, and if they are do you honestly think a permit system would help that? Do you think the people who commit those violent crimes would get a CCW so they could at least bring a gun to the crime scene legally? Your not making sense Guardian, I understand that you would pass the bill that's great but what are you trying to prove/say? Vermont has been without permits for a very long time, do you see people flocking here to buy guns? You can't even buy a gun in VT if your not a resident so that rules out the thugs crossing the borders to get guns. Having a permit system would have no effect on crime numbers. You still would obtain a gun the same way with or without a permit system Theirs still a background check and it's still illegal for criminals to own guns, the only difference is I don't have to fill out an application and send money to the state to have a pretty card for my wallet, that's it...period

Having a permit system gives the BG an advantage, theirs a much better chance that he is going to find an unarmed victim. In VT knowing theirs a much better chance that people are carrying makes the stakes quite a bit higher for the BG. To me that's a much better deterrent.

If you think about things like you say than tell me, what does a permit system do besides notify the government, cost citizens time and money, and make it harder for people to be and feel protected.

you filled out an application and had a quick background check you must be responsible and mentally sane they gave you a card that says so right?

I'll say again for the 10th time, To buy a pistol in Vermont you go through the same thing you would go through to get a CCW in most states it just takes half the time and doesn't cost you anything. If you can legally own a pistol why should it have to stay in your house in a drawer? If I pass a check to buy a pistol why do I have to pay more money and time to pass the same check again to be able to carry... it doesn't make sense.

We could argue about this all day but theres no need you still have choices, you can move to IL,WI,NJ,NY,CA they will be happy to tell you what to do and help you run your life . I'll stay in Vermont with all the crazy gun carrying criminals and our outrageous no permit system where people shoot each other over parking spaces and for a spot in line at the store.

I enjoy my time, money, and carrying a gun without a written permission slip from mom AKA the government.
 
#103 ·
Guardian,

Wasn't addressing you personally, so dunno why you decided I was. Was addressing everyone in the thread who was so sure this was a bad idea.

The reason I cite WA/OR for "training required" is because the two states are very similar in every other way: climate, demographics, politics, social attitudes. The same cannot be said of Austin and Anchorage. The only thing those two places have in common is city size, so too many variables to track that way.

A more convincing argument would be to look at accidental shootings or criminal negligence involving firearms (which were my original point, not overall crime stats) in Alaska before and after the permitless carry law passed. That would eliminate the other, unrelated variables and get to the heart of the issue.

pax
 
#105 ·
....
A more convincing argument would be to look at accidental shootings or criminal negligence involving firearms (which were my original point, not overall crime stats) in Alaska before and after the permitless carry law passed. That would eliminate the other, unrelated variables and get to the heart of the issue.

pax
Very good point. :congrats:
 
#104 ·
I don't see it happening in other states...they're making too much money from the permit process. It would be like lowering taxes...it just doesn't happen (in these godforsaken Blue states, like Michigan, anyway!).
 
#107 ·
Guardian,

I asked for references about accidents and criminal negligence involving firearms in states with permitless carry.

You came back with flat crime rates (not gun-crime rates, not accidental shooting rates, not criminal-negligence-with-gun rates, just flat crime rates).

I happily and humbly admit you were right when you predicted that I would say those irrelevant statistics were irrelevant. You win that one for sure! :wink:

Of course, if we wanted to compare apples to giraffes, the stats you cited would work just dandy.

pax
 
#109 ·
Of course, since you were not addressing me as you stated, my flat stats were meant for those back on page 3 or 4 where the previous comments were asking for pure crime rates and didn't reference the difference in accidents or criminal negligence and any of that other neat stuff you mentioned. Over analysis is sometimes a dangerous thing.

Sometimes simple statistics are the best when you just want to show one simple thing, it's worked for 49 years, I think I'll keep it that way.

Have a great night.
 
#110 ·
wyo-man I ate ice cream at Dirty Sally's in Ten Sleep. I love your state and will be there again this summer. I wrote a letter and called your Attorney General Salzburg about Wyoming and South Carolina having a P------ contest about permits. I think Gov. Freudenthal and Bright have had a light blub experience.
 
#113 ·
I can't believe this argument has gone on this long.

For the love of the gods, we are talking about a state that has one of if not the lowest population per sq. mile in the country. Mostly farm/ranch people who more than likely grew up with guns.

If there ever was a place for a test run on a modern no permit to CC, here's the place.
 
#114 ·
I ate ice cream at Dirty Sally's in Ten Sleep.
What a great little town. We spend a few days there every April for the first BPCR shoot of the season.
I can't believe this argument has gone on this long.
I have to second that sentiment.
 
#117 ·
Wy. no CFP needed?

The Wyoming legislature is pushing through a bill that would not require a Wy. resident to have a permit to carry concealed. Not passed yet, but on its way.
 
#119 ·
If for no other reason, it's been enlightening to read this thread. Some real questions, some real answers.

And a few that simply need to learn how to read.

My take on this bill? All the Way for it. %100!!

I just hope the "Nanny State" representatives from the NW corner and the SE corner don't muck it up for the rest of us. H***, I'm half afraid my own Senator from the center of the state may stab us in the back - again!
 
#120 ·
I'm half afraid my own Senator from the center of the state may stab us in the back - again!
It's what they do. It's in their nature.

95% of their term they have a constituency (sp) of 1.
 
#121 ·
The bill, House Bill 113, now advances to the Senate. Though the bill has Senate sponsors, Senate President John Hines, R-Gillette, told the Associated Press last week that he has some reservations about the proposal.

"I guess my thoughts are there are a lot of crazy people out in the world anymore, and I'm not sure I want them all to have a concealed weapon," Hines told the AP
.

Wow this brainiac couldn't think his way out of a room with one door. Does he really believe that the plastic card us law abiding citizens have is going to somehow make the crazies out there not carry a weapon if they aren't supposed to? I guess this proves that being in goverment really does require a single digit IQ.
 
#123 ·
Every innocent CCW mistake makes a sensational story and a bad example to be abused and misued by the nagging nannies, the Brady Bunch and the Bloomturd Herd; and puts the public, including gun lovers and others, at risk. It also might lead to even more restrictions, costs and losses to them and their gun rights. NO! A CCW license does not make me qualified for SWAT or Spec Ops or to even be a small-town cop! I may be reasonably sensible and sane and safe, at least while shooting in a nice safe regulated range place.
 
#124 ·
I wanted to Chime in on this. I have a permit because my state requires it. At first I was all for them. My reason why is that it could help weed out some crazies that should not be allowed to carry. However I later read a story about a Federal Air Marshal that pulled his gun over a parking space on a civilian. That got me to thinking. The Background check that they do on the Fed LEO and Regular LEO are more in depth than the CCW background checks and they are still pulling guns when they need not to. So I changed my thinking. Good point is that Vermont and Alaska don't have permits and you very seldom hear to much come out of those states. So do we need permits? Do we need background checks? If the Feds do them on LEO's and they don't catch everyone then I am sure that CCW checks are not going to work as well either. Also wanted to comment on Brady Campaign's ranking of states, the ones with the best scores have the highest crime rates, so I guess none of it makes a lot os sense.
 
#125 ·
Bad idea! A set up for bad sad sensational CCW stories that will no doubt lead to a more radical reaction? We can and do assume that most normal native folks in Wyoming have grown up with guns and been taught how to handle and shoot them safely. BUT...read some forum and magazine stories. No problem to have guns in the home for personal defense, but carrying them in public is much more dangerous and serious.
 
#128 ·
People (well, journalists and politicians) had a bad reaction from 1987-2006 when Florida restarted the 'shall-issue' movement. Blood in the streets. Soccer moms shooting each other over parking spaces. The Wild West. Etcetera, etcetera. Their fears were unfounded and we have been vindicated. This should not be any different.

Going to an AK/VT permitless system is the most logical evolution of the shall issue system:

The Need for Concealed Carry - Without A Permit | LearnAboutGuns.com*
 
#127 ·
Many states recognize other states CCW permits and folks who live in Wy. will have no CCW permit to show out of state.
 
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