A Quick Question on Sheep

This is a discussion on A Quick Question on Sheep within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DIXIETWISTER I agree with treo....about the cape. andi did not get one with my permit. Neither did I. I got jipped. Really ...

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Thread: A Quick Question on Sheep

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIXIETWISTER View Post
    I agree with treo....about the cape. andi did not get one with my permit.
    Neither did I. I got jipped.

    Really though. My gun is my last line of defense. I hope and pray I never have to use it. I don't expect to run around saving damsels in distress or serving justice to wrongdoers. I'll leave that to the people who get paid to do it. As selfish as it sounds to some, I'm out to save my skin and whoever may be with me at the time should the need ever arise. If my actions serve a greater good for humanity, awesome. But my goal is to prevent those who would do me harm from doing so.

    I'll agree with a few posts here as well. I wouldn't classify someone who goes unarmed as a "sheep." "Sheep" are those who assume that by passing laws, they're making themselves safer. Those who assume that because the sign says "No Guns" they will be safe inside. Sheep aren't necessarily those who are less prepared, but those who are either oblivious to the truth or choose to ignore it despite its obviousness.
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  3. #77
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    WOW!!! I decided not to check on this thread for 24hrs just to see what would lay ahead. You people ALMOST make me want to quit this forum all together. REALLY? This was not supposed to be serious people! It was supposed to be fun and enjoyable, not serious and degrading with arguments and off-stereotypes. When I posted this thread, I thought long and hard about where I should post it, here or Off-Topic and Humor section. I dont give two cents if you do or do not like the term "sheepdog" or "sheep" or "wolf" or "superhero" or "watchmen" or "vigilante" or whatever! I just really (if I can actually use that term because like I said before, I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THIS) wanted to know if my wife fell in with the people who dont know about the scary people who want to do harm to others, or is she more in line with people like myself who know about the evil and choose to protect themselves. She falls somewhere in the middle. NO. I dont care to know. You people take things and turn them into something its really not. She is my wife, she understands me and the dangers in the world. She does not get all wrapped up in the stupid terminology others have imposed. Yes, I call her a "sheep," just like she calls me a "sheep." ITS FUN!!! NOTHING IS HARMFUL ABOUT IT!!

    Thank you to those who tried to keep this on topic and fun.

  4. #78
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Sorry Avenger. I am guilty. I'm a very literal person.

    But at the same time, I (still) dont see humor in: "I just really wanted to know if my wife fell in with the people who dont know about the scary people who want to do harm to others, or is she more in line with people like myself who know about the evil and choose to protect themselves. "

    From your (later) description of your relationship, I think you and your wife are both quite fortunate.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #79
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    WOW!!! I decided not to check on this thread for 24hrs just to see what would lay ahead. You people ALMOST make me want to quit this forum all together. REALLY? This was not supposed to be serious people! It was supposed to be fun and enjoyable, not serious and degrading with arguments and off-stereotypes. When I posted this thread, I thought long and hard about where I should post it, here or Off-Topic and Humor section. I dont give two cents if you do or do not like the term "sheepdog" or "sheep" or "wolf" or "superhero" or "watchmen" or "vigilante" or whatever! I just really (if I can actually use that term because like I said before, I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THIS) wanted to know if my wife fell in with the people who dont know about the scary people who want to do harm to others, or is she more in line with people like myself who know about the evil and choose to protect themselves. She falls somewhere in the middle. NO. I dont care to know. You people take things and turn them into something its really not. She is my wife, she understands me and the dangers in the world. She does not get all wrapped up in the stupid terminology others have imposed. Yes, I call her a "sheep," just like she calls me a "sheep." ITS FUN!!! NOTHING IS HARMFUL ABOUT IT!!

    Thank you to those who tried to keep this on topic and fun.
    My wife has called me much worse.

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Sheep: A person unaware and unprepared, against real-world threats.

    Sheepdog: A person aware and prepared (at least to some degree), against real-world threats.

    Wolf: A person who preys on the others (innocents), most typically those who are unaware and/or unprepared.
    Pretty simple, eh?

    Your stereotypes are wildly inaccurate, and as useful as the standard ethnic ones.
    "Wildly" inaccurate, hm? And yet, essentially this is the distinction made in the use of the terms by Grossman, Ayoob/LFI, Hayes/FAS and countless others. Not so wildly off-base, it seems.

    Apologies appear to be in order that the verbatim text wasn't taken from the authors of the concepts, since that seems to be what's required to satisfy. Still, the distinctions are basically accurate.

    As we know, the terms are used to communicate primary characteristics quickly and easily, in the area of a person's ability to recognize and deal with evil. Those elements we generally recognize affecting that ability are awareness, preparedness and mindset. To the extent a person is deficient in those areas of prep, that person is the juicy target known as a sheep (from a wolf's perspective); and to the extent a person has sufficient prep and aren't so easily deterred, that person is the harder target known as a sheepdog (again, from a wolf's perspective).

    Grossman and others mostly take it as far as being the "protector of the flock," since the audience is so often the protector occupations in our community. But the the basic distinction still holds.

    The terms aren't used to denigrate or feel superior, at least not by me.
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  7. #81
    Member Array 86thecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    or whatever you want to call those who carry a weapon to protect themselves and/or family....
    Citizen, they are called citizens (as opposed to slaves or victims).

    edit- Well, I just jumped back and found this was "not supposed to be (too) serious", so on that note please allow me to interject some Mel Brooks-

  8. #82
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    Lamb chop could be a better term
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  9. #83
    Member Array 86thecat's Avatar
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    This Lamb Chop???

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    WOW!!! I decided not to check on this thread for 24hrs just to see what would lay ahead. You people ALMOST make me want to quit this forum all together. REALLY? This was not supposed to be serious people! It was supposed to be fun and enjoyable, not serious and degrading with arguments and off-stereotypes. When I posted this thread, I thought long and hard about where I should post it, here or Off-Topic and Humor section. I dont give two cents if you do or do not like the term "sheepdog" or "sheep" or "wolf" or "superhero" or "watchmen" or "vigilante" or whatever! I just really (if I can actually use that term because like I said before, I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THIS) wanted to know if my wife fell in with the people who dont know about the scary people who want to do harm to others, or is she more in line with people like myself who know about the evil and choose to protect themselves. She falls somewhere in the middle. NO. I dont care to know. You people take things and turn them into something its really not. She is my wife, she understands me and the dangers in the world. She does not get all wrapped up in the stupid terminology others have imposed. Yes, I call her a "sheep," just like she calls me a "sheep." ITS FUN!!! NOTHING IS HARMFUL ABOUT IT!!

    Thank you to those who tried to keep this on topic and fun.
    Sorry dude. You obviously touched a nerve, which is why I suggested people not hijack your thread and start their own to lament the common terminology used on the forum. Personally I got where you were coming from. I would call her "aware." Not "prepared" but "aware." Maybe she's like a cat? Like she sees what's going on around her and can skedaddle at the first hint of trouble? But other than that she takes naps and shreds the furniture...
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  11. #85
    Member Array liljake82's Avatar
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    I havn't read all of the posts so forgive me if this has been stated before.

    I use the term sheep, but not sheepdog. In my mind a sheep dog is a guardian willing to give it's life for the flock. I'm willing to give my life to protect my family, but if it is between helping a stranger and keeping my family safe tough luck for the stranger.

    As to sheep, it is my opinion that they are the people who accept the status quo and go about life beliving what they are told. IMO this includes anti-guners, greenies, and bleeding hearts in general. Obviously there are different levels but IMO people that subscribe to the "group think" mentality are sheep. I've met folks that are anti-gun, or greenies etc. that actualy do think for themselves yet still agree with these viewpoints but they tend to be few and far between.

    There is no offense meant to anyone here especialy the OP's wife, as I'm in a similar situation. My wife isn't anti-gun, but she "doesn't like guns". We're working on this and she's coming arround. I got her out to shoot last summer and she enjoyed it. She's becoming a free thinker. Hang in there bro, the best thing you can do is not to argue but ask why she believes the things she does. Teach her to think for herself and the rest will follow.

    BTW My 5th anniversary is in April.
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  12. #86
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    I really ought to start shooting more bullets before I continue to comment and post about guns, just for fun and something to do. Still, I learn gun stuff and fun stuff and it's FREE, which cannot hurt me. When I have carried a gun, legally or otherwise like a lot of gals and guys, I have felt a heavy weight of responsibility with risks, not taking it lightly or just having fun with guns to impress anyone, especially women while high or drunk or while being around punks. Our CCW instructors and class emphasized these risks, like those Ayoob stories in these gun magazines. Would I go outside to save my neighbors? I don't know.

  13. #87
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    Thoughts on "sheeple"

    I been holding off, to some degree, because I don't think that folk can be lumped into just three buckets. Said with apology to Grossman, Ayoob/LFI, Hayes/FAS and others. In their context, I bow to their opinion/insight.

    However, (a portmanteau of "sheep" and "people") is also used outside the area of defensive carry.

    So, I'd suggest we look at "sheeple" such as @ Sheeple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Urban Dictionary: sheeple

    I like the picture of sheep (or sheeple) as those who have voluntarily forfeited their right to choose in favor of inclusion in group-think. They are people who tend to accept and follow everything at face value, especially if it is cited in mainstream media. Not only do they do what they are told to do, but accepting the paradigm, thereby removing the weight of personal responsibility in the making of decisions.

    So, I see the huge gap between sheep and sheepdogs as being far more that carrying or not. It's a continuum, IMHO, and there is room for people to exist/move between the extremes.

    As always YMMV.
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  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    Sheepdog: Internet posters with delusions of grandeur.

    Sheep: Person who internet posters like to point out in order to feel superior

    Normal gun carriers: People who know that having a gun doesn't make them a sheepdog anymore than having a pair of nun-chucks makes then a ninja.

    Normal non-gun carriers: People who (most likely rightly) feel that the odds are in their favor and therefore don't carry for one reason or another.
    Hear hear! This one says it.

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Sheep dog is a term used by people who posses both a concealed carry permit and delusions of granduer and who beleive that their permit came W/ a bat cape.

    I am not a sheep dog
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  16. #90
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    Folks, please keep this fun. I didnt post this thread as a serious conversation. I know exactly what my wife thinks and how she functions. I am just curious where she might fall in relation to the terminology that I sometimes use to describe to some , my wife for example. Keep this fun, please.

    Personally I would not ever even consider where she fall in relation to the terminology. I have always found the terminaology to be kinda dumb. It's simply another way for people to categorize people and place themselves in a positon of self-induced superiority. If someone chooses to be less than aware of the possible threats they face, thats a choice they make. I am not going to make up names to call them nor am I going to label myself anything that implies I am any better or smarter than they are.

    For most Americans the chance of being a victim of a violent crime is tiny. The chance of being the victim of a violent crime that carrying concealed might help in is a fraction of the first. Most Americans will never see or experience violent crime and if they choose to play those odds that's their choice and I am not going to insult them here or anywhere else for making that choice

    I carry, my Wife carries, my 73 year old Mother carries, and my Son carries. We are aware and choose to arm ourselves.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

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