Would force have been ok to us here? - Page 3

Would force have been ok to us here?

This is a discussion on Would force have been ok to us here? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tiwee When they are covering the group, it is not imminent for an individual. At that point, they are going to shoot ...

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Thread: Would force have been ok to us here?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiwee View Post
    When they are covering the group, it is not imminent for an individual. At that point, they are going to shoot the person that moves or tries to draw. In other words, they will "Hit the nail that sticks up."

    When the focus narrows to one individual, it becomes imminent for that person in my mind.

    My goal in life is after the bad guys I have offed are standing at the pearly gates they say, "Who would've thought that old goat would have been armed. O well, live and learn. Oops. Darn it."
    I have to disagree with you here. I believe it is imminent for EVERY INDIVIDUAL.

    Are you willing to wait until he pulls the trigger when the gun is pointed at the person next to you? What if the gun is pointed at you when he decides to start the killing?

    By the time the focus narrows to one individual it is too late. Whether it is you or someone else.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  2. #32
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    Tough call. It's so easy to say shoot when you're not there. I honestly can't answer until I'm in that situation. I (or anyone else) can talk the talk, but when it comes right down to it--at that time, in that incident, under those situations--will we walk the walk?

    You'll never really know until it happens.
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  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tye_Defender View Post
    But, how much longer? That's the question.

    Let's say they enter the bank 37 years, to the second, from the time I was born. Their guns are draw. Not a direct threat to me at this specific second but I could draw and fire, killing one and the other shoots me and runs away. I'm dead at 37 years and 5 seconds old.

    Instead I could decide to wait till I really believe they will fire, one spends 45 seconds getting money from the teller while the other guy has us at gunpoint, but not really a direct threat to me at this second. Then they spend another 20 seconds moving us to the back room, still not a direct threat to me. Then start shooting people every second. Now I'm dead, along with every other innocent bystander in the bank, at somewhere between 37 years 1 minute and 5 seconds and 37 years 2 minutes and 0 seconds.

    Is it worth the extra 115 seconds of life, if it costs everyone else theirs?

    I agree that it depends on the situation. If it's 2 guys in the bank and they look like they just want the money and are acting "reasonable" (for a criminal), not swinging their guns around yelling and screaming at each other, I would probably not draw. Also, I'm not there to protect everyone else, but I think I would be able to get over killing a bad guy quicker than I would allowing an innocent bystander die because I didn't act. I think I would tend to err on the side of shooting the bad guy. (Don't get me wrong, I know that it would eat me up to kill anyone, even a piece-of-scum, but someone hurt due to my inaction would be so much worse.)
    who are you?...jack bauer?...each episode is one hour of the day so youre gonna need to make it last longer than that...

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    I just hope none of us are ever in that situation. If it does come, I hope all of our proposed courses of action are successful.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tye_Defender View Post
    But, how much longer? That's the question.

    Let's say they enter the bank 37 years, to the second, from the time I was born. Their guns are draw. Not a direct threat to me at this specific second but I could draw and fire, killing one and the other shoots me and runs away. I'm dead at 37 years and 5 seconds old.

    .)
    Or the other could be enraged and kill everyone else after you. Or the guy you hit could keep firing and hit innocents. Or someone may see you draw and scream and totally destroy your element of surprise......

    Against the odds that bank robbers generally dont kill.

    I also found the comment about 'controlling' the situation unrealistic and scary. Once you fire....you have no more control over that situation....you just introduced more variables.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #36
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    It's a decision that must be made on an individual basis. If someone was carrying but didn't act and I got killed, I wouldn't blame them (well, I'd be dead but that's beside the fact). The blame lies soley with the bad guys.

    Each individual has to size up the situation and what actions they are willing to take depending on so many different factors, there's no way to say what someone should do until they are in that situation.

    One thing that always sticks in my mind is a Subway (the sub store) robbery here many year ago where the security tape showed the clerk did everything the two robbers asked, gave them the money and totally cooperated with them. The robbers left the store, a half second later one of them walked back in shot and killed the clerk. This image has stuck in my mind every since it happened more than a decade ago. Because of this, I would like to think I'd draw and shoot, but in all actuality I can't say I would even draw if actually in that situation. It would depend on too many factors going on at that instant (including fear) that there's no way say what I'd do.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I'll call 911 after the fact. It's much safer, faster, accurate, and easier to act than react.
    It sounds like you saw Rob Pincus on tv the other night. What you said was almost verbatum what he said. lol. I do agree as well!
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  8. #38
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    After viewing the pics a few times IMHO there is not enough solid information for me to voice an opinion.
    If he was brandishing a gun and I am able to get to cover unnoticed. I would wait him out with my gun drawn.
    Member:USCCA, NRA, GOA, WVCDL
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsanchez View Post
    I dont want too spoil the subject, But I tought Guns are not allow in banks

    In that case I will just be a good witness since I respect the laws

    I do apologize if, I offend anyone
    Small side trip here guys. It all depends on your state's laws. Here in Oklahoma it's not against the law to carry in a bank. The manager/owner can put up no gun signs but legally those mean just about squat.

    However if you carried into a bank that had a no gun sign and opened fire on a robber, you might open yourself up to a civil liability suit from the bank for breaking their policies, however legal action from the state is highly unlikely. At least regarding your carrying into the establishment.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davensquirt View Post
    I would rather be a LIVE witness than a DEAD hero. Bottom line be a good witness. If your life is in immenent jeopardy, then that in its self is your answer.

    Height, Weight, Color, Clothing, Facial Hair etc. etc.
    Davensquirt's response is the ONLY smart move in these situations: The chances of these A-holes actually executing everyone in the bank is very slim, but the chances of you getting injured/killed while "protecting" the bank's money is HUGE.

    And heaven forbid if the shoot-out that you began results in an innocent party's death; whether it's from your own bullets, or from one of the POS cockroach's weapons.

    -Bill

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    By what is seen in photos I think I would wait to see what happened. With two armed BGs I would be outgunned.

    So I would wait to see if they start shooting, then get involved if I could.

    Hopefully, I wouldn't be shot first and would have time to be effective.

    Bobo
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  12. #42
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    Whenever I go to the bank I am very SA.

    I check out the parking lot with a quick scan.

    Upon entering the bank I take a second or so and scan everyone and everything, looking for anything out of norm.

    While doing business at counter or offices I keep a eye on door if possible and stay SA.

    When leaving bank again scan parking lot and leave promptly.

    As to CC in bank it is allowed in Texas.

    As to defensive shooting and this video it is hard to know what should have been done or could have been done.

    As someone else said, anyone pulled a gun is threatening others lives and in some way should be dealt with.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecs1 View Post
    It sounds like you saw Rob Pincus on tv the other night. What you said was almost verbatum what he said. lol. I do agree as well!
    Sorry, but who is Rob Pincus?

  14. #44
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    Rob Pincus from the TV show THE BEST DEFENSE - on the Outdoor Channel
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  15. #45
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    My initial thought is based on my years of military training, take the threat out immediately. However, my actions in a setting like that will be dependent upon the many variables that can occur in this situation.

    There's no way I'll know exactly what I'll do until I'm presented with that situation. I only hope a combination of what I've been trained mixed with good ole common sense would get me through this scenario unscathed.

    Reading everyone's posts on this forum regarding "what we would do" scenarios is great food for thought. I love seeing things from other peoples perspective.

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