Before going in to get a CC

This is a discussion on Before going in to get a CC within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While you're waiting for your birthday, go get a copy of Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme . It is a must read for every ...

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Thread: Before going in to get a CC

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    While you're waiting for your birthday, go get a copy of Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme. It is a must read for every new CC'er and should probably be re-read from time to time after that.

    You'll find it in some local gun shops or at Amazon
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array dairycreek's Avatar
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    While you're waiting for your birthday, go get a copy of Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme. It is a must read for every new CC'er and should probably be re-read from time to time after that.
    +1 - great background
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  4. #18
    New Member Array Bing's Avatar
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    thanks all for you insight and input, especially CheifJason, BugDude (though i hate bugs), Paymeister. I'm new to this all so anybody pointing me in the right direction i appreciate. Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme is on my list of books to read and i'll pull up my kindle after i get off and see if i can download it.

    to settle any of ya'lls worries about brandishing a weapon to end a fight, no i wasn't talking about fists fights, nor verbal fights or anything of the kind.

    I live in the sticks, and the majority of the people here are living in poverty. Drugs are just a way to make it through for most of the people here. I work in a coffee shop and i'm friends with several of the officers and they come in all the time with stories of drug busts and what not. In fact, one of the guys working for us is only on part time and the rest of the time he's an officer. (also my boss carries and has no problem with me carrying, but i don't plan on carrying because there are enough officers around where i need not worry)..

    To give an example of where i personally would consider brandishing ok, i'll just quickly tell a story of what happened to my friends last month. But let me put out a disclaimer, i have no idea what the laws are for brandishing and as it stands if i had my CC permit i would not draw unless a gun was drawn on me (which in that case i'm FUBAR). I'll most certainly know the laws before i do anything. This is no game nor joke.

    My friend was at the park with his buddies for whatever reason. He has a bad rep, some of it justified some of it not. I've heard both sides as to how it went down, i also know that the cops got there to late, but my friend was carried off to the hospital and treated with head wounds. The only weapon used was brass knuckles apparently. Both sides say he was attacked first and jumped from behind and knocked out, so he missed the rest of the fight, which left a few punks with busted lips and black eyes.

    If i was there with my friends at the time, i'm not sure if i'd draw, but i sure as hell would stand by a friend, that's for sure. But seeing as this wasn't a first, and because my friend is stupid, chances are it will happen again. However, it's gotten progressively worse. Verbal fights to fist fights to this. So that was what i had in mind when i said i knew of or had been in situations where brandishing would have ended or prevented a fight. Would i draw in that situation? IDK... I don't know the laws on that yet and so i'd be very hesitant. On my land, i'm not so picky about laws (drinking, firearms, etc) but the minute i leave my land i'm under the law. Without law we're lost. (kinda like Lord of the Flies)

    ADD:
    I've purchased the cz-82, i'm not sure if i'll carry that on person or just in my car yet, but that's what i've got. My snub nose 38 is only good up to 10feet (if that).
    I'm in caswell county area.
    "War does not decide who is right, but who is left."

  5. #19
    LLT
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    If your friend is stupid, maybe you should consider getting a new friend instead of a firearm?

    I don't know North Carolina law, but a quick search turned this up. It would seem, according to that, if you use your weapon in a situation as you describe, you're going to jail. Drawing with the intent of intimidation is also illegal just about everywhere.

    A gun is a tool, not a solution (IMO) - it's not a replacement for sound judgment, situational awareness, risk assessment and overall defense. Personally, if I have a mouthy friend that puts me in a position of needing to "defend" him - he's on his own and I'll be finding another friend ASAP. I'm not going to be anyone's hero or bodyguard beyond my immediate family. Going to jail for a stranger or "friend"? Nah, no thanks!


    Think your motives through very carefully... get training. Be safe.

  6. #20
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    In NC if you use lethal force to defend someone who was the aggressor you are breaking the law. Ie, your friend starts the fight, then starts loosing, you pull the gun and have to shoot, it's the same as you starting the fight then shooting. It's a big no no. In order to defend a 3rd party they have to not be the person that instigated the situation.

    Some of the deadly force law is here. In order to draw your weapon you would need to be OK to use it if you are going to avoid legal trouble.

    North Carolina Gun Law: Use Of Deadly Physical Force Against An Intruder - News Story - WSOC Charlotte

    You need to look at this too.

    http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    You have a lot to learn grasshopper,wipe on wipe off,If you are hanging around with people that like to drink get rowdy and fight,either change friends or leave your gun at home,When used correctly a gun can stop a threat and save your life,when used incorrectly a gun can get you in more trouble than you thought you would ever be in,possibly charged with murder.The class should go over the states laws applying to when you can and can't use deadly force,brandishing a big no no everywhere,Warning shots,etc.The Second amendment gives us the right to bear arms,but with it comes a huge responsibility
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I strongly recommend that you find a reliable website that has all of the North Carolina Revised Statutes, then find and read all laws on firearms, and use of force. This will include tracking down and reading the referenced NCRS - READ "....in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24.".

    Once you finished, go back and read them again. Cut and past the ones most relavent to you in a .doc as a CC permit holder, and the use of force, then go back in a week and read them again.

    I found one for you. North Carolina General Assembly - General Statutes
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #23
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bing View Post
    To give an example of where i personally would consider brandishing ok, i'll just quickly tell a story of what happened to my friends last month. But let me put out a disclaimer, i have no idea what the laws are for brandishing and as it stands if i had my CC permit i would not draw unless a gun was drawn on me (which in that case i'm FUBAR). I'll most certainly know the laws before i do anything. This is no game nor joke.

    My friend was at the park with his buddies for whatever reason. He has a bad rep, some of it justified some of it not. I've heard both sides as to how it went down, i also know that the cops got there to late, but my friend was carried off to the hospital and treated with head wounds. The only weapon used was brass knuckles apparently. Both sides say he was attacked first and jumped from behind and knocked out, so he missed the rest of the fight, which left a few punks with busted lips and black eyes.

    If i was there with my friends at the time, i'm not sure if i'd draw, but i sure as hell would stand by a friend, that's for sure. But seeing as this wasn't a first, and because my friend is stupid, chances are it will happen again. However, it's gotten progressively worse. Verbal fights to fist fights to this. So that was what i had in mind when i said i knew of or had been in situations where brandishing would have ended or prevented a fight. Would i draw in that situation? IDK... I don't know the laws on that yet and so i'd be very hesitant. On my land, i'm not so picky about laws (drinking, firearms, etc) but the minute i leave my land i'm under the law. Without law we're lost. (kinda like Lord of the Flies)

    .
    Please learn the law and develop some maturity before you start carrying. There are so many red flags in your quoted post I am not even going to try to point them all out. Changed friends/lifestyle or don't carry. If not. you will be on the news at some point.

    I wish there was a maturity test for carrying.

    BTW, "brandishing" is a crime in 90% of states.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  10. #24
    GM
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    Living in poverty does not justify in any way the use of drugs; IMO that is only a naive excuse.
    Concerning your “smart” friend; if you are even considering using your weapon to defend friends that like drinking and fighting you will end either dead or in prison. I carry two guns every day, but if possible I will always choose running away before drawing any of my guns. Get new friends or do not carry a weapon.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM View Post
    ...if you are even considering using your weapon to defend friends that like drinking and fighting you will end either dead or in prison. I carry two guns every day, but if possible I will always choose running away before drawing any of my guns. Get new friends or do not carry a weapon.
    This.

    A CC is not for pulling out in a barfight, unless you want to spend the next 20 years in prison.

    CC requires a mature attitude and above all the willingness to avoid bad situations whenever possible. You can never threaten someone with your gun, the only thing you can do is shoot to stop an imminent threat of death or serious injury (or similar). A mere 'fight' does not qualify.

    In addition, in most states, if you had anything to do with provoking the fight you MUST attempt retreat before resorting to deadly force.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
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  12. #26
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    Discretion is the better part of valor. It is also required if you are going to carry a deadly weapon and in a difficult situation. Leave before it gets bad. There is a post on here from another young lad in NC that choose to try and calm down a situation. He ended up charged with impersonating a police officer.

    Sounds to me like you are planning on getting a weapon to "help" your friends. That is the wrong reason.

  13. #27
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    You have not missed anything, a CCW has nothing to do with OC in Nc.

  14. #28
    New Member Array Bing's Avatar
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    Right, i agree with both of you. My friend did not start the fight and by stupid i mean he was alone in a bad part of town. Like i said, i don't know the laws and i'd much sooner uses fists than a weapon of any kind...and better yet avoid the whole situation. I don't look for fights and avoid the ones i find, but i'll be damned -if i fight does arise- if i go out without a fight. I'd had my share of fights and know good an well how to avoid them. As a rule i never swing first, and i find it's best to turn the cheek 'cause sometimes the other guys just needs to let off some steam and that's the end of it. If i wanted anything more i'd join the PD or Military.
    Rest assured i intended to fully known all the laws about owning a gun, carrying a gun, using a gun in self defense and anything else in between before i put the thing in the holster. Thanks once again for the information, concern and links!
    "War does not decide who is right, but who is left."

  15. #29
    Member Array lazy's Avatar
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    Time for new freinds.
    I wouldn't advise Honking the horn of your car, at someone(crazydriver) while CC.
    Glocks

  16. #30
    New Member Array Bing's Avatar
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    Well i've purchased the book that was recommended and have been viewing the sites you guys gave me links to and have been doing some study of my own.
    However, i am no fool and when it comes to something as serious as this i'd rather be safe than sorry. Seeing as there are two pages now of people pretty much saying i shouldn't carry, i am going to respect those who known more than me and hold off on getting a CC permit. I'll keep studying and maybe in a few years i'll get one but i wont be getting one soon. Maybe i miss represented myself or maybe i represented myself correctly, but either way i see a lot of warning signs and i respect those and thank you all for you input and help.
    "War does not decide who is right, but who is left."

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