2 questions...1KY, 1 SC

2 questions...1KY, 1 SC

This is a discussion on 2 questions...1KY, 1 SC within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am a Kentucky resident and my wife and I will be expecting our second child. I am legal to carry into the hospital? My ...

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Thread: 2 questions...1KY, 1 SC

  1. #1
    New Member Array joeuc23's Avatar
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    Question 2 questions...1KY, 1 SC

    I am a Kentucky resident and my wife and I will be expecting our second child. I am legal to carry into the hospital? My question revolves about my ignorance of the following stipulation in the KY law:

    a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B
    Does anyone know what facilities fall under this?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    My second question revolves around a possible family vacation to Hilton Head, SC. I notice the following stipulation:

    SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

    No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.
    If we have rented a vacation home, do we need written permission from the owners or rental agency to carry?

    Thank you,
    Joe


  2. #2
    Member Array mirage2521's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeuc23 View Post

    My second question revolves around a possible family vacation to Hilton Head, SC. I notice the following stipulation:

    No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person

    If we have rented a vacation home, do we need written permission from the owners or rental agency to carry?

    Thank you,
    Joe
    Is the rental property their residence or dwelling place? If it is then it's going to get crowded with your family there along with the owners. The answer is no, a rental property is just that, a rental property. It is not the owners residence (where they reside) or their dwelling place (where they dwell). You are fine.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeuc23 View Post
    I am a Kentucky resident and my wife and I will be expecting our second child. I am legal to carry into the hospital? My question revolves about my ignorance of the following stipulation in the KY law:



    Does anyone know what facilities fall under this?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    My second question revolves around a possible family vacation to Hilton Head, SC. I notice the following stipulation:



    If we have rented a vacation home, do we need written permission from the owners or rental agency to carry?

    Thank you,
    Joe
    Every hospital that I know of in NKY is owned by one outfit. Everyone of their facilities are posted. Leave the pistol in the car.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    This is from Handgunlaw's Kentucky Information:
    The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited.
    From the portion I emphasized, it would appear that if it is posted, you cannot carry.

    As far as the SC question, if you are renting the entire house, you are the person in control of the premises:
    SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

    No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.
    And no, IANAL so use at your own risk.

    Hoss
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    Member Array Jumper2501's Avatar
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    Can't speak to KY, but looks like you got some sound advice about SC. Enjoy Hilton Head.
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  6. #6
    New Member Array joeuc23's Avatar
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    Thanks all. SC looks good to go.


    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    This is from Handgunlaw's Kentucky Information:

    From the portion I emphasized, it would appear that if it is posted, you cannot carry.

    As far as the SC question, if you are renting the entire house, you are the person in control of the premises:

    And no, IANAL so use at your own risk.

    Hoss


    But I pulled my training booklet out and found the entire subsection I quoted above in regards to KY.

    Edit: KRS 273.110 http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

    (16) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, no license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into: (a) Any police station or sheriff's office; (b) Any detention facility, prison, or jail; (c) Any courthouse, solely occupied by the Court of Justice courtroom, or court proceeding; (d) Any meeting of the governing body of a county, municipality, or special district; or any meeting of the General Assembly or a committee of the General Assembly, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a member of the body, holding a concealed deadly weapon license, from carrying a concealed deadly weapon at a meeting of the body of which he or she is a member; (e) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;
    (f) Any elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of school authorities as provided in KRS 527.070, any child-caring facility as defined in KRS 199.011, any day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894, or any certified family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, except however, any owner of a certified child-care home may carry a concealed firearm into the owner's residence used as a certified child-care home; (g) An area of an airport to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property; or (h) Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

    (17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited. Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice and Public Safety Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used by the employee of the cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction. Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer.
    So it would appear that the hospital is the same as any other privately owned store/restaurant. Signs don't carry weight until asked to leave (except those on areas listed in section 16).

    Thoughts?

    Joe

  7. #7
    Member Array Jumper2501's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeuc23 View Post
    So it would appear that the hospital is the same as any other privately owned store/restaurant. Signs don't carry weight until asked to leave (except those on areas listed in section 16).

    Thoughts?

    Joe
    When I'm traveling and in doubt, I get on that state's AG's website, get a phone number, ask for someone well-versed on CCW laws and get confirmation (or correction) to what I think I read. Safest way to avoid trouble, IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper2501 View Post
    When I'm traveling and in doubt, I get on that state's AG's website, get a phone number, ask for someone well-versed on CCW laws and get confirmation (or correction) to what I think I read. Safest way to avoid trouble, IMHO.
    What someone tells you on the phone is not going to necessarily keep you out of jail. It might not even be correct and certainly isn't going to stand up in court "your honor, I called the office and someone there told me...."

    If you call up another day and get another person, you might get another answer.

    Ohio's AG will NOT provide legal guidance other than to state and county officials.

    Ken

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    Member Array Jumper2501's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken45 View Post
    What someone tells you on the phone is not going to necessarily keep you out of jail. It might not even be correct and certainly isn't going to stand up in court "your honor, I called the office and someone there told me...."

    If you call up another day and get another person, you might get another answer.

    Ohio's AG will NOT provide legal guidance other than to state and county officials.

    Ken
    Good points. Maybe I should have been more clear. I ask one of the attorneys who can give me a CCW answer (so far, I've only had questions about PA & NC) and get someone, tell them which section is unclear, have them give me the right interpretation of the AG (because I think, in my decidedly un-legally-informed opinion, that that's what matters, what the current AG is willing/likely to view as a crime), and even cases to reference (one offerred, the 2nd time I asked, seemed like a good idea).

    I hadn't considered some offices wouldn't give out the info. Good to know, thanks.

    EDIT: I'm up for anyone's suggestions on other ways to get "the right poop".
    Last edited by Jumper2501; February 21st, 2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Added edit.
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    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    I believe you've pretty much got your anwser here.
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  11. #11
    Member Array Captain38's Avatar
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    KRS 216B00 reads, in part, as follows:

    (12) "Health facility" means any institution, place, building, agency, or portion thereof, public or private, whether organized for profit or not, used, operated, or designed to provide medical diagnosis, treatment, nursing, rehabilitative, or preventive care and includes alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and mental health services. This shall include, but shall not be limited to, health facilities and health services commonly referred to as hospitals, psychiatric hospitals, physical rehabilitation hospitals, chemical dependency programs, tuberculosis hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, nursing facilities, nursing homes, personal care homes, intermediate care facilities, family care homes, primary care centers, rural health clinics, outpatient clinics, ambulatory care facilities, ambulatory surgical centers, emergency care centers and services, ambulance providers, hospices, community mental health and mental retardation centers, home health agencies, kidney disease treatment centers and freestanding hemodialysis units, facilities and services owned and operated by health maintenance organizations directly providing health services subject to certificate of need, and others providing similarly organized services regardless of nomenclature;

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/216B00/015.PDF

    Hope this answers your question about carrying concealed at the hospital in Northern Kentucky.

    Oh, by the way, congratulations on the new arrival!

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    Member Array ken45's Avatar
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    primary care centers
    Does that mean doctor's offices? Are they "centers"? Geesh, all the legalese, too bad they can't write the laws in English :(

    Ken
    (whose primary care doctor's OFFICE is in Kentucky)

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    "If we have rented a vacation home, do we need written permission from the owners or rental agency to carry?"


    Joe,
    I just checked my copy of the codes and statues and you do not need permission. If you rent a room or house in SC it becomes your residence and you are allowed to keep your firearm with you. If you are visiting someone else's residence, you must ask permission to carry you weapon inside.

    Try this link: South Carolina Law Enforcement Division

    look under this heading: SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    Enjoy your stay,
    CinSC

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    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    FYI, all of the hospitals in northern KY are part of the same system and all of their facilities are posted no CC.

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    New Member Array joeuc23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain38 View Post
    KRS 216B00 reads, in part, as follows:

    (12) "Health facility" means any institution, place, building, agency, or portion thereof, public or private, whether organized for profit or not, used, operated, or designed to provide medical diagnosis, treatment, nursing, rehabilitative, or preventive care and includes alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and mental health services. This shall include, but shall not be limited to, health facilities and health services commonly referred to as hospitals, psychiatric hospitals, physical rehabilitation hospitals, chemical dependency programs, tuberculosis hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, nursing facilities, nursing homes, personal care homes, intermediate care facilities, family care homes, primary care centers, rural health clinics, outpatient clinics, ambulatory care facilities, ambulatory surgical centers, emergency care centers and services, ambulance providers, hospices, community mental health and mental retardation centers, home health agencies, kidney disease treatment centers and freestanding hemodialysis units, facilities and services owned and operated by health maintenance organizations directly providing health services subject to certificate of need, and others providing similarly organized services regardless of nomenclature;

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/216B00/015.PDF

    Hope this answers your question about carrying concealed at the hospital in Northern Kentucky.

    Oh, by the way, congratulations on the new arrival!


    Thank for the quote/link.

    And thanks again. We are quite excited.

    Joe

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