"Handgun Dispute Roils Colorado State University"

This is a discussion on "Handgun Dispute Roils Colorado State University" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Across the U.S., most public universities ban students and faculty from carrying concealed handguns on campus. Colorado State University has, up until now, been one ...

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Thread: "Handgun Dispute Roils Colorado State University"

  1. #1
    Member Array Skippys's Avatar
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    "Handgun Dispute Roils Colorado State University"

    "Across the U.S., most public universities ban students and faculty from carrying concealed handguns on campus. Colorado State University has, up until now, been one of the few exceptions to this rule. But now, campus leadership wants to change the policy, and that's not sitting well with students and local gun rights advocates."

    However, "...The region's county sheriff, Jim Alderden, says if the CSU policy is put into place, he will not jail anyone found guilty of violating it."

    Read NPR story here: Colorado State University Embroiled In Concealed Carry Dispute : NPR

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    However, "...The region's county sheriff, Jim Alderden, says if the CSU policy is put into place, he will not jail anyone found guilty of violating it."
    Nor should he, IMO, as no law would have been violated. Policy <> law.

    Though, I'm sure the school will simply ratchet up the penalty for students/faculty/staff being caught in defiance of the policy: expulsion or termination.

    I wonder if actual crimes by legal carriers have prompted the leaders of the school to change things, or simply politics and fears.
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    Senior Member Array FastDraw's Avatar
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    The last time I checked concealed carry on college campuses is LEGAL in Colorado.

    Be Alert and Stay Safe

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    This relatively old. CSU changed the policy within the last couple of month, even though the student body voted to leave the policy alone to something like 95% (can't remember the exact #'s).

    The RMGO and others are now taking CSU board of regents to court, with the support of the Larimer County Sheriff.

    Not sure what brought it on, most likely someone got twichy, someone like a financial supporter. There was no incident per say that happened on campus, in fact they have/had a lower per capita/student crime rate compared against the other two large Colorado Colleges.

    Flying in the face of truth and facts for "Feel Good" rules.

    So now the campus is like everyone else. Per policy and under the threat of expulsion or termination, no one other than law enforcement will be allowed to carry a firearm (open or concealed) on campus property.
    Sticks

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    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I understand that the education system is overwhelmingly liberal, but they are supposed to be educated and openminded right? Supposed to evaluate and look at facts? So why is it on this one issue, the "educators" choose to stick their heads in the sand and think that the school rules will stop people who are planning on breaking all sorts of laws from coming on their campus??? They keep saying it will help to ban guns, and we need to dissarm everyone, and then the BGs keep shooting up the target rich environments without fear of being shot back at?

    It just doesn't make sense! Criminals don't follow the rules!!!
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    What got me is the campus was CC since the state turned Shall Issue in '02 (IIRC), might have been since the college initially opened.

    No firearm incidents, no shootings, no mass murders or anything of the like on campus, let alone in the state (baring Columbine).

    All of a sudden, now it is an issue.

    I can almost see a entity encountering a new event where they have to make a decision to say Yea or Nay, but to step backwards and say not any more, when school life is normal, calm, and peaceful?

    Fourm rules prohibit me from speaking further, as my attitude on the matter is taking a header
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Banning things that haven't caused a problem... Brilliant!

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Banning things that haven't caused a problem... Brilliant!
    Signature line 2 applies.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array Skippys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    ...Not sure what brought it on, most likely someone got twichy, someone like a financial supporter. There was no incident per say that happened on campus......
    My guess is the story from Alabama last week: "Three faculty members at the University of Alabama in Huntsville were shot to death, and three other people were seriously wounded at a biology faculty meeting on Friday afternoon, university officials said."

    If a university bans guns, some pissed off professor/teacher/student will certainly think twice before bringing a gun on campus. Certainly.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippys View Post
    My guess is the story from Alabama last week: "Three faculty members at the University of Alabama in Huntsville were shot to death, and three other people were seriously wounded at a biology faculty meeting on Friday afternoon, university officials said."

    If a university bans guns, some pissed off professor/teacher/student will certainly think twice before bringing a gun on campus. Certainly.
    Because, obviously, the UA no-guns-on-campus policy was effective....

    So...you would think the lesson learned would be to allow people to defend themselves.....nahh.....too logical.
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippys View Post
    My guess is the story from Alabama last week: "Three faculty members at the University of Alabama in Huntsville were shot to death, and three other people were seriously wounded at a biology faculty meeting on Friday afternoon, university officials said.".....
    Arrghhhhhh.....

    Per my first post, this has been going on for a while.

    Here is the first newspaper article from Dec. 2, 2009, and links to subsequent articles.

    Note that the CSU board of directors made their decision on Dec, 4 (after the discussion was initially brought up after the Virgina Tech shooting, though I find it that hard they mulled it over that long) and the official announcement sometime shortly after.

    CSU officials weigh a gun ban; student leaders disagree - The Denver Post

    Student leaders at Colorado State University voted overwhelmingly tonight in favor of a resolution asking school president Tony Frank to continue to allow people with concealed-weapon permits to go armed on campus.

    "I feel students have a right to have a measure of self-defense on campus," said sophomore Cooper Anderson, a student senator representing the College of Agriculture Sciences and a co-author of the resolution.

    "It's a fact that crime doesn't stop at the university's doorstep."

    He added the change departs from state law and current university policy.

    "We've had enormous support and expressions of concern from students about the possibility of not keeping concealed-carry on campus, said junior David
    Extras

    * Read the CSU student government's resolution (PDF).

    Ambrose, another resolution co-author who represents the College of Business.

    Twenty-one members of the Associated Students of CSU Senate voted in favor of the eight-page resolution, three against and five members were absent or abstained.

    CSU is one of a few U.S. colleges that allow weapons carried by those with permits. Campus police, other safety experts and Frank's cabinet said in October that the campus should be gun-free except for security officers.

    The mass shooting at Virginia Tech University in 2007 prompted CSU's faculty senate to ask for a review of the gun policy last year.

    CSU spokesman Brad Bohlander said Frank would consider the student leaders' resolution before making a decision.

    CSU's Board of Governors will discuss the issue at a meeting Friday morning in the system's Denver office, but the final decision is Frank's.

    In the 23 states that allow public and state campuses to decide their own gun policies, nearly all have policies banning weapons on campus, according to the American Association of State Colleges and Universities.

    In May, a district judge in El Paso County tossed out a student group's lawsuit aimed at overturning the ban on University of Colorado campuses, adopted in 1994.

    Blue Ridge Community College in Virginia has allowed permitted weapons since 1995, and Michigan State University has since June.

    Utah prohibits state schools from banning guns on campus, according to the college association.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array MikeFontenot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    The last time I checked concealed carry on college campuses is LEGAL in Colorado.
    Ken Salazar, the then state attorney general, was asked by the University of Colo to determine whether CU was prohibited from banning guns on campus by the non-preemption part of the concealed-carry law. He expressed the legal opinion that CU COULD ban guns, because their board of regents was a state-level organization, not a lower-level organization. I've heard that CSU's governing body (and I THINK those of all the other colleges in the state, except for CU) is different somehow, and isn't covered by Salazar's opinion. (I'm not a lawyer, and have no idea if any of the above is true or not).

    Mike Fontenot

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    Member Array thepierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    I understand that the education system is overwhelmingly liberal, but they are supposed to be educated and openminded right? Supposed to evaluate and look at facts? So why is it on this one issue, the "educators" choose to stick their heads in the sand and think that the school rules will stop people who are planning on breaking all sorts of laws from coming on their campus??? They keep saying it will help to ban guns, and we need to dissarm everyone, and then the BGs keep shooting up the target rich environments without fear of being shot back at?

    It just doesn't make sense! Criminals don't follow the rules!!!
    Because they don't actually believe what they are teaching. They say "evaluate opinions, investigate facts" but they don't really believe that. They are going to believe what they want to believe, no matter the evidence to the contrary.
    They try to teach "there are no absolutes", but isn't that an absolute?
    Or "meaning = interpretation" rather than author's intention. They don't believe that either, because then I can re-interpret that statement to mean what I want it to mean.
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    New Member Array Momma Glock's Avatar
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    I went to the "debate" on CSU campus yesterday regarding their recently passed CC ban. The Univ. did not send a representative, and since the CSU regents already made the ruling in favor of a ban, it's kind of a mute point, but here's the run down:

    Participants included Larimer County Sheriff Jim Alderden, the Independent Institute’s Dave Kopel and Mr. Mauser of Colorado Ceasefire...this guy's son was killed in Columbine. Of the audience of maybe 40 people, there was not ONE person who supported the ban, a point which Mr. Mauser attributed to people not being informed about the debate...I think it's because they couldn't find anyone who supported it.

    As far as the law/precedent goes, the CU ruling is not relevant because the CU regents are elected and the CSU regents are appointed, i.e. don't represent "the people". Colorado DOES have a law stating concealed carry IS PERMITTED on college campuses, but there is also a statute saying that the regents of the University are permitted to make laws to protect the "safety and welfare" of the student body. Despite the fact that the regents in this case have NO statistical or even implied evidence to suggest that concealed carry on campus in any way endangers the students, and in fact, there is empirical evidence to the contrary, the regents voted to ban it. So now it's up to the courts.

    At the debate, both the Sheriff and Mr. Kopel stated the case for allowing CC on campus extremely well, quoting all of the stats we all know & love about the benefits of CC, but I was most amazed at the logic of the anti-gun fellow Mr. Mauser. I get that his son was killed in a tragic senseless act of violence and he's trying to honor his memory and all, but to me it's like this: Your kid isn't wearing his seat belt and gets in a fatal car wreck. You're so upset that you lobby to prevent any one from wearing their seat belt? I just don't get that logic! How can you look at the evidence...I mean the REAL statistics and then completely dismiss them in favor of blind emotion? I'm a woman so I understand being "emotional" but even I am conscious enough to look at the facts and make an informed decision. Why can't these people do that...and why do they think that making everyone a victim will somehow honor the memory of someone who was already victimized?

    Here's where I'm at: 1. I have the right to life and liberty as granted to me by GOD. The only one who can take those things away is the same one who granted them to me and I will use any earthly tool in my possession to defend both. 2. I don't tell those anti-gunners that they have to carry a firearm and I don't expect them to tell me that I can't. My carrying it just might save both of our lives some day. 3. Fake statistics and BS hypotheticals sound just like lying...and I hate liars.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

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