Article from the Huntsville-Times against workplace gun legislation

Article from the Huntsville-Times against workplace gun legislation

This is a discussion on Article from the Huntsville-Times against workplace gun legislation within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Opinion: Senate gun vote makes it easier for nut cases to harm others | al.com HUNTSVILLE, AL -- From two short stories in Friday's Huntsville ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array CplVargas's Avatar
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    Article from the Huntsville-Times against workplace gun legislation

    Opinion: Senate gun vote makes it easier for nut cases to harm others | al.com

    HUNTSVILLE, AL -- From two short stories in Friday's Huntsville Times, just a page apart:

    "The Alabama Senate has passed legislation that would make it easier for people to keep guns in their cars."

    "A vehicle parked at a home ... was burglarized between 6 p.m. Feb. 1 and 2 p.m. Wednesday. A Smith & Wesson .38 caliber handgun was stolen."

    The first story tells us that the our state Senate won't permit businesses to establish rules that prevent employees having guns locked in their cars.

    The second tells us that a gun was stolen from a car at someone's home, at some time during a 24-day period. If I'm missing two quarters and a nickel from my console change tray, I notice it the next day. But it's maybe 24 days and you don't know your gun is gone?

    You might remember some slightly bigger stories in recent newspapers. For instance, the one about a 15-year-old boy who brings a gun to school and murders a fellow student. Or the one about a professor stripped of tenure who comes into the workplace with a gun and kills three co-workers.

    There's a more delicate, diplomatic way to put this, I know, but here's the deal: We have more nutjobs in the world than ever before. We have more stressed-out employees, on edge in a tenuous economy, than ever before. Still, hey, let people hide guns in their cars.

    The bill in the Alabama Senate was sold by Sen. Roger Bedford, D-Russellville, and it passed 26-2. "This vote is about one thing only: Do you support Second Amendment rights?" he told his colleagues.

    A cynic would say it's about this thing, too: It's an election year.

    And the National Rifle Association, of which Bedford is a member, is a generous donor to election campaigns, including Bedford's.

    I'm a big fan of the U.S. Constitution, even if that "well-regulated militia" part before we get to "right to bear arms" is outdated. I don't happen to believe that having sensible gun control laws equates to "you can never hunt deer again."

    I'm a bigger fan of common sense.

    There's a right to bear arms. There are also rights for employers to make their rules and establish a safe workplace.

    Does a gun locked away in a car really provide protection? From what? A mugger using a walker?

    Or does it make it easier for somebody who's angry, insane, insulted or a combination of the above to pop open the glove compartment, grab the gun and cause problems?

    And what a bonus a gun in the car can be for thieves who thought they were just getting a CD player, a set of golf clubs or a joyride.

    Studies show that approximately 25 percent of gun-related crimes involve stolen weapons. And that 25 to 30 percent of stolen weapons are from vehicle break-ins.

    There was another short story in our paper that ran last summer. A Mobile police officer named Brandon Sigler was shot and killed. Richard Hollingsworth shot him with a weapon that had been stolen from a deputy's car.

    Maybe its just me, but there's an even older bit of legislation than the Constitution.

    "Thou shalt not kill."

    So why does it seem like we keep making it easier to do so?


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    Opinion: Senate gun vote makes it easier for nut cases to harm others | al.com

    HUNTSVILLE, AL -- From two short stories in Friday's Huntsville Times, just a page apart:

    "The Alabama Senate has passed legislation that would make it easier for people to keep guns in their cars."

    "A vehicle parked at a home ... was burglarized between 6 p.m. Feb. 1 and 2 p.m. Wednesday. A Smith & Wesson .38 caliber handgun was stolen."

    The first story tells us that the our state Senate won't permit businesses to establish rules that prevent employees having guns locked in their cars.

    The second tells us that a gun was stolen from a car at someone's home, at some time during a 24-day period. If I'm missing two quarters and a nickel from my console change tray, I notice it the next day. But it's maybe 24 days and you don't know your gun is gone?

    You might remember some slightly bigger stories in recent newspapers. For instance, the one about a 15-year-old boy who brings a gun to school and murders a fellow student. Or the one about a professor stripped of tenure who comes into the workplace with a gun and kills three co-workers.

    There's a more delicate, diplomatic way to put this, I know, but here's the deal: We have more nutjobs in the world than ever before. We have more stressed-out employees, on edge in a tenuous economy, than ever before. Still, hey, let people hide guns in their cars.

    The bill in the Alabama Senate was sold by Sen. Roger Bedford, D-Russellville, and it passed 26-2. "This vote is about one thing only: Do you support Second Amendment rights?" he told his colleagues.

    A cynic would say it's about this thing, too: It's an election year.

    And the National Rifle Association, of which Bedford is a member, is a generous donor to election campaigns, including Bedford's.

    I'm a big fan of the U.S. Constitution, even if that "well-regulated militia" part before we get to "right to bear arms" is outdated. I don't happen to believe that having sensible gun control laws equates to "you can never hunt deer again."

    I'm a bigger fan of common sense.

    There's a right to bear arms. There are also rights for employers to make their rules and establish a safe workplace.

    Does a gun locked away in a car really provide protection? From what? A mugger using a walker?

    Or does it make it easier for somebody who's angry, insane, insulted or a combination of the above to pop open the glove compartment, grab the gun and cause problems?

    And what a bonus a gun in the car can be for thieves who thought they were just getting a CD player, a set of golf clubs or a joyride.

    Studies show that approximately 25 percent of gun-related crimes involve stolen weapons. And that 25 to 30 percent of stolen weapons are from vehicle break-ins.

    There was another short story in our paper that ran last summer. A Mobile police officer named Brandon Sigler was shot and killed. Richard Hollingsworth shot him with a weapon that had been stolen from a deputy's car.

    Maybe its just me, but there's an even older bit of legislation than the Constitution.

    "Thou shalt not kill."

    So why does it seem like we keep making it easier to do so?
    I guess I missed exactly which or what kind of law would guarentee that none of the above would/could happen?
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; February 28th, 2010 at 08:04 PM.
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  3. #3
    Member Array wildcatCWP's Avatar
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    If they are concerned about people stealing guns from locked cars in parking lots, I have the solution:

    Let people carry them everywhere.


    Oh, wait -- they hate that idea even more!

    This bill isn't making an activity that was illegal before into something legal now. People are already keeping their arms in their cars, this just prevents businesses from making arbitrary and capricious rules about storing guns and prevents people from getting canned or reprimanded by liberal bosses.

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    It may be bright, warm, and cozy at work. There may be security and roaming maintenance. But the ride can be dark and cold.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    I really hope you are joking. I worked at such a place that would fire you if you had anything gun related , even an NRA renewal notice in your car. One guy got walked out and fired because someone saw spent shotgun shells in the back of his pick-up truck in the parking lot, after he had been hunting that weekend.

    The point is not about the work place... it's when I'm going to and coming home from the work place. They effectively kept me from having my gun and being able to CCW while I was stopping at places to get things done on my way home. So, they took away my rights both coming and going to work, and anywhere I stopped in-between. THAT IS THE ISSUE !

    I ran into situations several times after leaving work, that I was very uncomfortable that I did not have a gun on me,...... they took my right to have a gun with me away from me. Once, a guy pulled a knife demanding money when I met my daughter to look at place she was considering having her wedding. I was unarmed because I met her after work. That's the issue and the reason for it.

    I might mention, this is a company that is also so paranoid about it's employees that they bought guns for all top Mgmt, let them carry secretly, provided them with training as well, and paid for their CC licenses.

    I don't think any company should have that right, if I lock it up in my car while I'm at work.

    I stayed there only long enough to retire last year. Want to hear the ironic part ? Now that I am not an employee.... I can carry while there, and they do not have their doors posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    "The Alabama Senate has passed legislation that would make it easier for people to keep guns in their cars."
    ...
    The first story tells us that the our state Senate won't permit businesses to establish rules that prevent employees having guns locked in their cars.

    The bill in the Alabama Senate was sold by Sen. Roger Bedford, D-Russellville, and it passed 26-2. "This vote is about one thing only: Do you support Second Amendment rights?" he told his colleagues.
    Sen. Bedford gets it and is doing his duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    I'm a big fan of the U.S. Constitution, even if that "well-regulated militia" part before we get to "right to bear arms" is outdated.
    ...
    I'm a bigger fan of common sense.

    There's a right to bear arms. There are also rights for employers to make their rules and establish a safe workplace.

    Does a gun locked away in a car really provide protection? From what? A mugger using a walker?
    Your common sense doesn't trump my constitution and that of the founders.
    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    Studies show that approximately 25 percent of gun-related crimes involve stolen weapons. And that 25 to 30 percent of stolen weapons are from vehicle break-ins.
    By your stats, if a law could prevent all guns stolen from cars (as if) and all guns stolen from cars are later used in gun-related crimes, then you reduce gun-related crimes by less than eight percent.
    While any crime reduction is good, it is the vigilance and ingenuity of the rightful gun owner to prevent theft of his gun from his car.
    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    "Thou shalt not kill."

    So why does it seem like we keep making it easier to do so?
    This forum is making it less easier to kill a victim.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    [url=http://blog.al.com/mccarter/2010/02/opinion_senate_gun_vote_makes.html]
    "Thou shalt not kill."

    So why does it seem like we keep making it easier to do so?
    We're making it harder for them to do so. Seems that the criminals and murderers in the world didn't get that message and / or don't care. So, do we stand there and volunteer to be a victim ? Ho does that stop a criminal ? They often kill so that there are NO witnesses to their crime. That's what has been happening for way too long.

    People are not out there breaking into cars 'hoping' they will find a gun. Their odds are too slim for success. They break into sporting goods stores, homes, National Guard Armories, etc.

    I don't see any evidence that law-abiding citizens, quit being law-abiding because they have a gun or in any way... increase the likelihood of a crime to occur.

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    a simple gun cable lock through the weapon and the seat frame will stop most vehicle gun theft while at work unless the thief has some cutting tools in his posession as he breaks-in. If it's just a smash and grab of stuff they can see, they are likely not that well prepared with tools. I've been considering getting a console vault for my truck, but if they are that well prepared with tools, could they not take a crow bar and pry it out of the plastic console base? I still may get a console vault...anyone have one of those made to fit their model truck? If so, do you recommend the barrel lock keyed version or the 3 digit combo?
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    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    Don't you people UNDERSTAND??? If we'd just make a law, that would prevent all this!
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

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    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I agree. The answer is simple. Don't leave your weapon in the car. Concealed means concealed.

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    The point of not allowing employers to tell you "no guns in your car" is NOT so you can be an idiot and leave a gun in your car all the time. The point is so that legal ccw carriers can carry to and from work and have a legal place to put their gun while at work without the risk of losing their job.

    Thankfully Utah has already passed similar legislation. Although, I am personally of the mind that "concealed means concealed" unless ILLEGAL to do so.
    ~Coriantan~

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    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coriantan View Post
    . Although, I am personally of the mind that "concealed means concealed" unless ILLEGAL to do so.
    yep

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    I fully understand that some people can take issue with guns and proper gun security/storage.

    I don't understand why you can't respect me and have an intelligent, reasonable conversation informing me of your concerns. The idea that legislation is the only "cure" for bad behavior (from your perspective) is not just poor judgment, it's entirely un-American, and demonstratively false.


    Anyhow, concerning the topic; I have to lock mine in the car since my employer doesn't allow them inside. I commute over 1 hour (one way), through some pretty shady neighborhoods. If I break down, have to gas up, get stuck in traffic, or have a medical emergency on the road, I don't trust my safety in those areas. When I'm not in the vehicle, my firearm is locked out of sight.

    Like others said, I'd like to just keep it on me. However, I simply cannot risk loss of employment. I have to protect myself and family from that danger too, you know.
    Crime should be outlawed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    So why does it seem like we keep making it easier to do so?
    Because we keep letting recidivist criminals out of jail...

    Other than that, what's your point?
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    The 6th commandment

    Looking forward to the day when people stop mis-quoting the 6th commandment. It is properly translated "Thou shalt not MURDER." Bit of a difference from "Thou shalt not kill."

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