March 8th, 2010 11:49 AM
I agree with this one. As a former LEO I respect their job, but the requirements at my door will be based on law and that's it.
Originally Posted by maddyfish
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
March 8th, 2010 12:09 PM
Agreed about the casual hello, chat, nod type of stuff.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Here is how it's written on the Louisiana State Police website:
Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:
1. Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
2. Submit to a pat down;
3. Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.
The bold is my emphasis, but note by omission it tends to suggest that if the permittee is the one who approaches the officer he doesn't have the duty to inform. WARNING AND NOTICE.....THERE'S NO WAY I'D SUGGEST testING THAT "LOOPHOLE".........wherever you are, and no matter who approaches who, if it's business and your state requires it, just let the nice officer know you are carrying in a non-threatening way. I've never tasted roadside gravel and don't intend to.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
March 8th, 2010 12:10 PM
This is an interesting one! That's why I love this site so much!
In Michigan we are required to notify if stopped but we are also allowed to carry CONCEALED on our own property. I suppose if an LEO came to my door I wouldn't bother to tell him unless he either came inside, or I stepped outside. Not sure of the legal requirements here though.
March 8th, 2010 01:04 PM
In sheepville (town) it might be questionable if someone was armed at the door, where I live (when home) is rural with widely scattered houses and LEO should assume everyone is armed and it is not required in Missouri to inform.
About a month ago our phone line was having static problems (crappy telco) and generated a 911 hang-up call about 8:30 PM, we live on a dead end private drive with 5 houses (we're #4) and the wife saw a car on the drive (the 1 house past us is an elderly couple who are rarely out after dark and drive a van) so she grabbed her S&W 624 and went to the front door. When she saw the deputy walking up to the house (he had parked and approached the house through the wooded front yard to her right) she put the gun on the handrail of the stairs going up to the loft and opened the door.
He said he had seen my truck license plate (yes that is my real plate) and decided to approach from the side on foot and asked if everything was alright and if there were any guns in the house. The wife answered "Everything is fine and that would be the logical assumption", then he asked if they were all locked up and the wife answered "All except the ones I need for protection"(her 642 and an M-1 carbine with jungle clipped 30 round mags) she said he had a strange look on his face when she said that. She explained about the bad phone line and told him a trouble report had already been placed with the telco.
They talked a bit and she explained I was in Iraq and she and a handicapped friend were alone in the house and the deputy offered to drive by when in the area. She thanked him but said she was fine and the 3 houses he drove past to get there kept on eye on her and she was ready to protect herself. She said he was a nice young guy and emphasized that she shouldn't hesitate to call if she thought there was a problem because he would rather make a couple false responses than have her not call when there was a problem.
March 8th, 2010 01:12 PM
In SC the statue that says that mandates that cwp holders inform LEO that we have a cwp and are armed is written into the cwp portion of the gun law. which means that if you are not carrying under your cwp you are not required to tell. So at your house you are not carrying under your cwp but are using a different law to carry there and therefore you would not need to inform.
Also atleast in SC i would say that if a leo asked you if you had seen something involving a crime i do not think that there is an expectation for you to disclose your carrying if you did not and he let you go on your way immediately after just like you are not required to tell them if they just say hey while standing in line to get a burger.
Leo while working are always on official duty as they are looking for criminals. Part of that searching they do is to talk to random people that they come across and see how they react or what they have to say.
March 8th, 2010 01:16 PM
Im pretty sure you would have to inform.
Originally Posted by TedBeau
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
March 8th, 2010 01:23 PM
Good point. Since SC has Castle Doctrine and residents are allowed to carry openly on their property, it'd be sorta obvious.
So at your house you are not carrying under your cwp but are using a different law to carry there and therefore you would not need to inform.
March 8th, 2010 01:24 PM
Hey keltyke: From what you say I assume if an LEO comes to my house to ask me about a neighbor or a possible problem in my neighborhood, etc, and I am armed, it makes no real common sense or legal sense for me to bring up CC and CCWP. If he comes to my house and requests an ID for who knows what reason, I am required to inform?--sounds a bit like not having a search warrant--any comments?
March 8th, 2010 01:46 PM
Nothing contained in this article shall in any way be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon:
(1) the right of a public or private employer to prohibit a person who is licensed under this article from carrying a concealable weapon upon the premises of the business or work place or while using any machinery, vehicle, or equipment owned or operated by the business;
(2) the right of a private property owner or person in legal possession or control to allow or prohibit the carrying of a concealable weapon upon his premises.
In SC you may carry a weapon on your property, either concealed or open. However, the way I read this is, if you are carrying concealed, even on your property, you must inform.
(K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver’s license from a permit holder.
March 8th, 2010 02:17 PM
I could go on for hours about why I would appear to be jaded. But I have seen, mostly through my employment, abuses beyond belief by law enforcement. I do not believe it is 'a few bad apples'. I believe that the attitude that citizens are cattle to be hearded, prodded, and abused runs rampant in the law enforcement community. I have seen first hand, and been involved in several cases, where officers knowingly, and quite happily endangered ordinary citizens. Whenever I see or hear someone say "for the officers safety and your own" I cringe. Let me assure you, that to most cops, you safety is the last thing on their mind. Be responsible for your own safety because the cop at your door certainly won't.
Originally Posted by razor02097
Here is one instance that I was personally involved with from another thread
"Witnessed it in person once. I was almost arrested for dressing down the cop on the spot. The idiot shot at a fleeing bank robber who was carrying an obvious airsoft gun, with his 40 cal from 1. a moving police car, 2. through his own windshield, 3. at a running suspect on a crowed sidewalk, 4. from approx 75 yards, 5. accross a busy city intersection.
Don't compare cop shootings to those that a reasonable citizen in self defense mode might take."
As I was yelling at him for endangering, me, my wife, my kids and scored of other citizens, I believe, if he could have reloaded, he would have shot me. He was so enraged. At the robber for running. At me for yelling at him to stop shooting. At the general population for being "in the way"
March 8th, 2010 02:54 PM
Personally, I would disclose, just as a matter of courtesy.
An officer carrying out his duties, deserves respect, it shouldn't matter if he was investigating a nearby crime or stopping you for an infraction you committed.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
March 8th, 2010 03:39 PM
Officers can talk to me through the door. I do not give them permission to enter the home. If they do not like that I believe they can attempt to get a warrant, which, with no RS or PC, good luck.
I also do not open the door so wide that they see anything but a sliver of my entry wall, and my foot is against the door.
No offense to law enforcement but once you give them permission ie. allow entrance into your home you have given up alot of your rights foolishly.
Walther P99 AS full size 9mm
Kahr P9 compact 9mm
Michigan Sheriff's Association
“The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall
March 8th, 2010 05:12 PM
I am a little confused by the responses here.
If a LEO comes to my door to ask a question that does not relate in any way to bad behavior by me, and he does not ask for my identification or if I am carrying a weapon, why would I voluneer any information that is extraneous to the conversation?
I am assuming that I have followed all relavent laws regarding firearms, and he is only doing a canvas of the area looking for help to solve some crime.
I do not want to distract him from his canvas with unrelated issues, especially when I pose no danger to him.
I suspect that this notification pertains to times when I am stopped for a traffic violation and not when a policeman is canvassing an area.
This would be similar to a situation where you are walking (and carrying) on a public beach for exercise where you see a policeman who is speaking to a few sunbathers directly in your path. Should you go up to him "out of respect" and inform him that you have a CWL and are carrying concealed? You pose no danger to him, and he is clearly interested in someone other than you.
March 8th, 2010 05:21 PM
Thanks keltyke: The regulations quoted are very clear in SC. If he asks and you are then you had better.
March 8th, 2010 07:01 PM
But Okla is a "if you come in contact with an officer you must notify them " state. That's why he's asking the question. It's a question I'll bet you couldn't get 2 -20 lawyers to agree on an answer.
We don't have to notify, unless we're in Oklahoma. Oklahoma has some good laws, so I don't know how they got stuck with this one.
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