Must notify at home ?

This is a discussion on Must notify at home ? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The really sad thing about this whole thread is it's not us the officer needs to be afraid of. The criminal will simply walk up ...

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Thread: Must notify at home ?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    The really sad thing about this whole thread is it's not us the officer needs to be afraid of. The criminal will simply walk up to the LEO, pull his gat out of his pocket, and start blasting.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Why so jaded?

    Just cause a cop isn't there to be your friend doesn't mean he deserves any less respect. I have met some real non huggy type cops in my life but I still am respectful to any cop that comes up to me.
    Not to nit-pick, but respect is earned. I believe in treating any cop in a professional manner, and I would hope they would do the same.
    Treating me like a D/I treats a new marine recruit isn't going to earn my respect, just silence.

    As far as notifying, you all seem to be extending the requirement to notify while in a public place to your home. I don't believe that requirement exists in your "castle" where you don't need permission of the state to be armed.

  4. #33
    Member Array tmizzi's Avatar
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    I think the first question everyone needs to ask is if they could carry a concealed firearm on your own property without a permit. If the answer to that is yes then I see no reason why one would have to inform regardless of what the particular "must inform" rule is in your state. Obviously if your state statues says something along the lines of "you must inform even in your home" that would be an entirely different matter. Just my opinion as I am not an attorney.
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  5. #34
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    Tx is a must notify state, statute & link below (PDF file, page 28), stating that if asked for identification, you must provide both the ID and the CHL. If a LEO approaches & has questions about an event that does not involve me but that I may have seen, ie. "which way did he go"?, I would certainly answer their questions, but not being asked for ID absolves me from having to inform of my CHL status. I would not say "he went that-a-way, & by the way, I am a CHL holder, and my firearm is on my right hip", why muddy the water?

    As summarized by my CHL class instructor, the CHL stays with the drivers license. If the driver's license is requested by an LEO, the CHL comes out in tandem with it. If the DL stays in the wallet / purse, so does the CHL. It's not a matter of where you are, if you're on your property or not, if you have an interaction, it's a matter of being asked for ID that triggers the CHL notify requirements. Not asked for ID ... no need to inform.

    A real life example that happened to me 3 weeks ago. I was at an indoor shooting range, 30 minutes into my session, I was called out to look at my car parked 3 spaces away from the front door, I was the victim of a smash-n-grab, driver's door window busted out (go figure at a shooting range). I called the police, 2 officers arrived in 5 to 10 mins., I explained that I was indoors shooting when the car was broken into. As we stood 3 parking spaces from the front door of the shooting range, they asked for my personal information, name, address, phone, etc. that I gave verbally, they noted my vehicle info, & I detailed the items missing & value as they filled out the report. Knowing I had been indoors shooting just 15 minutes earlier, they did not ask about my gun, If I had a gun, where it was, or if I had a CHL. They did not ask for my drivers license or ID of any kind, so I did not show my CHL, or even mention that I had a CHL. I was prepared to hand both DL & CHL from the beginning, but ID wasn't asked for, so my CHL stayed with my DL in my front pocket the whole time.

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/LS-16.pdf

    GC 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's drivers license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

  6. #35
    Member Array newhunter1's Avatar
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    You know...this is a good question. I live in Illinois and carry in my home. I know that the law allows me to carry in my home as well as on my property. I am sure about the home but unsure about the property. I do however need to get and print out the laws if the Law does come to my home. I have done nothing wrong and will not open the door past the screen door. If I know that the police is at my door...I will put my pistol on the top of my book case and walk out on to the porch with an empty holster. Either that or I will speak to him through the window. Time to do some research.

  7. #36
    Member Array Greg Foster's Avatar
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    I don't think you have to in Washington st.

    Just a few weeks ago my fiance and I were watching a movie on tv and we had our police scanner on in the kitchen. About half way through the movie I herd my name (and age) being broadcast on the scanner. I paused the movie, asked her if she herd it...she said no, it was probably someone else.
    Then they said her name, vehicle and address on the scanner. So now we are both freaked out.
    I was about to get up and look out the window when there was a knock on the door...it was the police.
    Apparently a neighbor saw a prowler in the neighborhood, and when the guy saw he was being watched he ran into my back yard. So when the cops got to my place they ran the plates on our vehicles to see who was supposed to be there.
    I was CC while talking with them, they just asked if we heard or saw anything and if they could look around the back yard. I said we didnt see or hear anything, and they can look all around they want. I even walked around the yard with them.
    They never caught the guy. The cops where real friendly, and it's nice to know my neighbors are keeping an eye out.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Just thinking here...but if you don't require a permit on your property...

    ...and a LEO shows at your door...

    ...how can you be subject to the permit laws IRT notification??

    Living in VA, it's assumed most have a firearm in the home....but I have no reason or requirement to disclose...
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Not to be rude, but what part of an officer, in performance of his duty, asking about a crime being commited does not sound like "official duty"? It's not like he stopped at your door to ask to use the bathroom.
    Would you expect him to have to preceed every "official" duty with a statement: "This is official duty."

    In general, if an LEO comes to your door, it's probably for a good reaason and for official business.
    Small Town Officer:
    Hey "my first name" I was driving by and thought i'd stop and ask if you have had any trouble lately.

    Me:
    Why no, has anything been happening?

    Small Town Officer:
    Oh no, not really, by the way if you see anything kids running through the yards and stuff let me know ok?

    Sometimes police do purposely try to make an official call sound nonchalant so not to arouse curiosity. This can muddy the waters to where a person might not have the same understanding of the nature of the conversation.
    After all if everything were perfectly clear we would never ever need to ask if we were free to go.

    Michael

    P.S.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.
    Not sure if I was being detained. It was just something that made me think a bit after the fact.

    Michael

  10. #39
    Member Array AdoptedTexan's Avatar
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    Well, I'm waiting for an authoritative answer here. I'm guessing "it depends." Is anyone familiar with Texas law? I would say if I'm at home on my own property and an officer comes up to ask a question, I'd just answer it and not volunteer the fact that, oh, by the way, I'm armed. If he asked if I was armed, I'd answer truthfully. But not likely he's going to ask. If anybody knows -- and I mean really knows -- Texas law, please respond.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I was in the open garage at the time. Does being on your property outside, or inside make any difference?

    Michael
    I'd be curious to know if he stepped one foot into your garage thus putting him into part of your dwelling. As for informing the leo, only if asked for ID.
    "Brains before Bullets"

  12. #41
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    re: Adopted Texan

    Quote Originally Posted by AdoptedTexan View Post
    Well, I'm waiting for an authoritative answer here. I'm guessing "it depends." Is anyone familiar with Texas law? I would say if I'm at home on my own property and an officer comes up to ask a question, I'd just answer it and not volunteer the fact that, oh, by the way, I'm armed. If he asked if I was armed, I'd answer truthfully. But not likely he's going to ask. If anybody knows -- and I mean really knows -- Texas law, please respond.
    It was answered above that you must show your CHL when you 1) are carrying 2) are asked for identification.

    New rules however have removed any penalty---don't ask why, that's what The Leg. chose to do.

    I have been told during my CHL class to always show the CHL when you show the DL, even if not armed because there have been some rare mistakes resulting in arrests due to confusion over what the law actually requires. However, the law is clear. 1) you must be armed for the notification rule to go into play; 2) you must be asked for ID.

    This was posted above by someone else and it is quite clear:

    GC 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's drivers license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

  13. #42
    New Member Array banderashovel's Avatar
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    in texas if you are on your own property you can have your handgun [or long gun] in plain site,carry it how ever you want..mine stays on my side in plain veiw..
    HELL YES I'M READY--DON'T I LOOK READY. !!

  14. #43
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    The whole thing is a moot point anyway. As the Supreme court affirmed with Kelo vs New London, CT there is no such thing as private property in this country.

    1. If you don't pay the tax on your property they take it from you at gunpoint.
    2. They may come onto your property at any time and dictate to you what structures/fences etc you may and may not erect on said property.
    3. They may take your property at any time via eminent domain, even if they are giving it to another private interest.


    Since we have no private property rights we may as well inform them.

  15. #44
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdoptedTexan View Post
    Well, I'm waiting for an authoritative answer here. I'm guessing "it depends." Is anyone familiar with Texas law? I would say if I'm at home on my own property and an officer comes up to ask a question, I'd just answer it and not volunteer the fact that, oh, by the way, I'm armed. If he asked if I was armed, I'd answer truthfully. But not likely he's going to ask. If anybody knows -- and I mean really knows -- Texas law, please respond.
    Answers vary based on individual state laws. For Texas, below is from my reply 5 up from your question, the Texas "Must Notify" statute. In summary, you must notify when you are asked for ID by a LEO, AND you are armed (in possession of a firearm on, or about your person). It is not specific as to location, and no exclusion to this statute if you are on your property. Location appears to be irrelavant.


    (PDF file, page 28 for "Must Notify" statute).
    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/LS-16.pdf

    GC 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.(a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's drivers license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

  16. #45
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    New rules however have removed any penalty---don't ask why, that's what The Leg. chose to do.
    Hopyard, the removed penalty is not for failure to notify, but rather failure to have your CHL on your person when armed & asked for ID by LEO. Penalties for failure to notify remain the same today as previously.

    If you don't have your CHL on hand when armed & asked for ID, you must still notify of your CHL status & that you are armed, but the former stiff penalties for not having possession of your CHL while CC'ing have been removed. The reasoning being that an honest mistake of leaving your wallet / purse (with CHL) at home or in your car, etc., does not instantly turn you into a hardened criminal & get your CHL immediately suspended on the spot as it once did.

    Stay Safe
    Last edited by KimBobTex; March 12th, 2010 at 10:37 AM.
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

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