Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

This is a discussion on Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by kccad "Is your anti-gun ideology so strong....that if your only chance to defend your family was with a firearm....would you choose to ...

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Thread: Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kccad View Post
    "Is your anti-gun ideology so strong....that if your only chance to defend your family was with a firearm....would you choose to watch them die, instead?"

    I usually get red faces and no replies. What little I do get usually goes along the line of..."that is an unrealistic scenario"...or..."there is always other options". Whatever the response, it usually ends up with them presenting a circular argument to try to get me to understand what they really meant, as if I didn't get it the first time.

    They realize they've been trapped by their own weak ideology...for if they say they would use the gun, they look hypocritical and/or elitist. If they say they wouldn't use it, then they look like a cold-hearted SOB that would put ideology over the lives of their family.
    the problem is whenever I make that argument they usually say they would use the gun... they look hypocritical and/or elitist but they don't care because they believe that hypocrisy apparently doesn't apply on hypothetical situations

    I guess its that darn libbs logic again?

    GLOBAL WARMING.... AAAAHHH STOP IT!
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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  3. #17
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    Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Outlaw autos. They kill far more people than guns do, far more!
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    My comment to that comment by a couple of people was , "why don't you call some folks in DC & Chicago and ask them how that's worked for them, and if it's reduced violent crime".
    Or Austraila. There is a good article that has been sited here and goes around the internet about the 300 percent increase in violent crime since Austraila confinscated all hand guns.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Any machine shop can turn out a dozen submachine guns every day, how do they plan to stop late 19th century tech?

    As for registration of firearms, we tried it here, they claimed it would cost 200million, the real cost is closer to 2 billion. Going by import/export/manafacture records, there should 21 million legal guns in Canada, so far they have registered 7 million of them. So if we spend another 4billion we might have a partial list of all the legal guns, but no idea about the illegal guns except that it could be that 49,000 guns are smuggled in every year.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    With the logic the anti's have we should outlaw everything. My point is they are so severely malfunctioning mentally and emotionally, why waste time trying to talk to them at all. I just steer clear. I have and still do some stupid things, I'm human but I'm not stupid. And I won't stoop down to their level of stupidity and lack of rational thinking.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    There simply aren't two supportable, justifiable sides to every argument. Defensive weaponry is one of them.

    It think it is fairly simple. My $0.02 ...

    Evil exists; and, criminals will engage in evil acts. Thus, the only real question is whether a person can survive criminal attack. To help square the odds, it is vital that defensive weaponry be available to good people, else the merely good cannot effectively prevail against the criminally evil. Eliminate defensive weaponry or criminalize defensive acts, then evil will prevail. Which leaves us with one option: an armed upstanding population, one that is prepared to withstand and prevail against criminal attack. Quite simply, nothing else will work.

    In the face of that simplicity, our elected autocrats continually craft horribly complicated alternatives that don't have a hope of succeeding. When all we really need is cessation of criminalization of otherwise upstanding acts of defending against crime. That's it. Then, with the will power of 200M focused minds, each individual can take the steps necessary to prepare sufficiently well to make the world an absolute mine field for criminals. Eliminate the ridiculous statutory criminalization of upstanding acts, then the rest will fall into place. Pretty simple.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 12th, 2010 at 09:42 PM. Reason: grahmur
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #22
    Member Array Pete14's Avatar
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    I will turn in all my guns as soon as all the burglars, robbers, rapists and criminals do...until then I think I will keep mine!

  9. #23
    Member Array kccad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    the problem is whenever I make that argument they usually say they would use the gun... they look hypocritical and/or elitist but they don't care because they believe that hypocrisy apparently doesn't apply on hypothetical situations

    I guess its that darn libbs logic again?

    GLOBAL WARMING.... AAAAHHH STOP IT!

    Great point!

  10. #24
    Member Array irish_ironsight's Avatar
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    I have played that game with one of the Anti's I met one evening when out Grocery shopping, a friend of my wife who is rather set in her way's told me I had no need for a gun, and only the police should be armed, when asked who would protect her she said the police. So using information I picked up here, I asked her did she see a cop there and then that could save her....I pointed my finger at her, told her give me her purse or else. SHE GOT THE MESSAGE REAL QUICK !
    Oddly enough her husband carries.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, pass me my vest!

  11. #25
    Member Array buggysmama's Avatar
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    Well, in the UK, gun owners have had to turn in all of their firearms. And immediately after doing so, all forms of crime went up by a huge amount. Why? Because the criminals (who DO have guns) knew that the average citizen out there would DEFINITELY NOT have a gun.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic View Post
    It may sound like a bumper sticker but "if guns wer outlawed then only outlaws will have guns" but it dose make the point that law abiding citizens with guns are not the ones committing crimes.
    Most of the people behind the anti-gun effort do get it. They realize that their win will come through attrition. What guns that are not turned in and destroyed immediately will be picked up at some future time. Possibly after a crime where the illegal weapon if left behind or maybe during some stop and frisk on the street. Most of them know that it wont happen in their lifetime but it would be a gradual process. They honestly believe this. They are looking at an Utopian future maybe a century from now. Time is on their side.

    Michael

  13. #27
    Member Array Ronny's Avatar
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    I used to debate people like this. I don't anymore and I find "antis" like me better. I like to let anti gun friends know I own a 22 rifle and a handgun I inherited from my grandpa so they don't think I' a gun crazy person. Then invite them to shoot it with you but make an extra big deal about safety and be very forthright that guns are dangerous and you're going to give them a long lecture about how to be safe with them before you let them hold a gun. I've had 2 "anti" friends shoot with me. It starts them loosening up about it. Debating never works because it's an emotional topic for them. The best way to convince people is to be a person they respect and set a safe example for them.

  14. #28
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    Never try to teach a pig to sing.
    It frustrates you and annoys the pig.
    WELL PUT!

    I am going to add it to my list of favorites; like:

    That's why there are more horse's asses than there are horses.

    Capt. Art

  15. #29
    Member Array Pale Horse's Avatar
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    I have been on both sides of the fence--I started out anti and became pro gun when I was confronted with certain realities in the streets when I began working as a paramedic.

    I've found that debating with an anti gun person is a lot like debating religion.

    As a paramedic (and, quite frankly, a certain personality flaw), I tend to view the world in practical terms before I view the world philosophically or religiously.

    Anyone who is mechanically inclined can make a gun from raw materials anytime they want.

    Shotgun News recently ran a series of articles on how to make a functional receiver for an AK47 from sheet metal so that you can order the spare parts and build one from scratch.

    When I was a kid, a teenage boy in my high school made a completely functional single-shot pistol from a section of steel tubing that was held onto a grip with metal hose clamps. The wooden grip came from shop class, he made the black powder from saltpetre, sulphur, and charcoal from chemistry class, and used a steel ball bearing as a bullet.

    This half-assed contraption functioned like a muzzle-loading flintlock pistol, and was quite capable of penetrating an inch of plywood at thirty feet. He was pretty accurate, too, considering the circumstances. He was able to keep his shots at center mass on a crudely drawn outline of a silhouette target.

    I know what you're thinking, but I was not this kid. I was, however, more than happy to watch (with morbid curiosity) from the sidelines.

    My point is that everyone can have guns if they want them and are willing to break the law.

    It isn't too much to ask to have parity with criminals who want to hurt you.

    Thank you.

    Best,

    ---Kevin

    P.S. The trigger mechanism on this ersatz gun was a tiny hole near the end of the 'barrel' that was packed with the white stuff that came from the ends of a few 'strike anywhere' matches. The hammer (if I can dignify it with such a label) was a bent bolt fastened to a hing. It slammed forward and down under the force of a few stout rubber bands when you let it go with your thumb.

    P.P.S. Yes, he did get busted and went away to wherever they bring dangerous juvenile delinquents.

  16. #30
    Member Array BAGMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggysmama View Post
    Well, in the UK, gun owners have had to turn in all of their firearms. And immediately after doing so, all forms of crime went up by a huge amount. Why? Because the criminals (who DO have guns) knew that the average citizen out there would DEFINITELY NOT have a gun.
    +1 on that. Search the internet for info on crime stats in the UK and Australia. There is a direct correlation to increased crime once all good people turned in their arms.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli" Clemenza

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