Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

This is a discussion on Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just stumbled across a great way to talk with most staunch anti gun rights person you have ever met. I want to throw this ...

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Thread: Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

  1. #1
    Member Array Cytoviper's Avatar
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    Countering the "outlaw" all guns argument

    I just stumbled across a great way to talk with most staunch anti gun rights person you have ever met. I want to throw this out here and kick it around and get some other peoples thoughts on this... a collective mind is always better than a single one.

    So just read another thread on another forum about a drive by shooting that happened 3 doors from an anti. This person showed up late for work and was explaining to a coworker why they were late because of the shooting incident. Then blurted out the "all guns should be outlawed" comment. Thats when the heated discussion ocurred between the pro and anti gun people started.

    So..... now that i have set up this situation.... the anti's comment about all guns should be outlawed triggered the following reply.

    "You know while we are at it...... we should really outlaw all the dangerous drugs too, because so many people are addicted and they cause so much trouble with our kids too."

    Then turn this on its ear of course......."wait all dangerous drugs are outlawed".... now where do all those drugs come from?.... and if they are outlawed how can we stop them?.....but of course we cant just quit making them because responsible people (doctors) use these same drugs to help sick people.

    Ok......so you get the idea....... open for comments!!!


  2. #2
    Mic
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    It may sound like a bumper sticker but "if guns wer outlawed then only outlaws will have guns" but it dose make the point that law abiding citizens with guns are not the ones committing crimes.
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


    Molôn Labé!

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Ya know, it's kind of funny. I don't even bother arguing with the staunch anti's anymore. I can't think of an argument for which they have a rational answer. That's the major reason that I will refuse to protect anyone but my family or myself in most cases. Talking to an anti is often like boxing with a pillow. You know you get some good hits in, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. The people with whom I'll enter into a conversation are the ones on the fence or the ones who just don't know. There's an old Persian Proverb that really sums it up well:

    "He who knows not,
    And knows not that he knows not
    Is a fool ~~ shun him.

    He who know not
    And knows that he knows not
    is a child ~~ teach him

    He who knows
    And knows not that he knows
    Is asleep ~~ wake him

    He who knows
    And knows that he knows
    Is wise ~~ follow him"


    Thus endeth the lecture.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I like that perspective. I don't think I've heard that one before. I've heard and thought of lots of comparisons to legal things that we need and everyone can agree we need, or how you keep all sorts of things "just in case." Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. But pointing out how usefull laws are at stopping drugs and other crimes is a good tactic.

    I always enjoy making statements and asking questions that make them think and realize how stupid it sounds themselves. I find that makes the realization all that much more powerfull. The biggest struggle is to get them to think rationally and not react out of fear of the unknown.
    Walk softly ...

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    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    Most people that are 'staunch anti's' are emotionally charged. Logic will have no effect on them. I notice the same situation in ministry all the time. Most people 'want' to believe and maintain their convictions so badly that even if it bites them on the nose they will overlook or downright ignore the bite and continue the emotional argument.

    If a person is just ignorant or parroting what the media, movies and cop shows have told them to believe then there may be hope for a rational, logical discussion. In my experience if a person is 'rabidly' anything - logic will mean nothing to them.

    Holdcard
    If You Want To POPULATE Heaven
    You Have To PLUNDER Hell!!

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    My comment to that comment by a couple of people was , "why don't you call some folks in DC & Chicago and ask them how that's worked for them, and if it's reduced violent crime".

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    "If all doobies were outlawed, only the dufuses would have doobies."
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    In case facts have persuasive value to those you might check out Gun Facts - Your Guide to Debunking Gun Control Myths

    A subtle, but well reasoned argument also useful is why the gun is civilization.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

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    GM
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    I do not even try to argue with antis anymore; it is not worth the time.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Never try to teach a pig to sing.
    It frustrates you and annoys the pig.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    All criminals whether they are robbers, murderers, rapists, thieves, child molesters or what are outlaws. They live outside the laws as if the laws don't apply to them. We can't get rid of them so what makes the antis think they can really get rid of guns?

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    ...I can't think of an argument for which they have a rational answer.
    Precisely. Armed self defense is a rational practice, particularly useful to oppose an armed criminal. There is no rational counter-argument. Antis feel, they don't reason.

    I try to avoid debate with antis, but if I must, I don't quote statistics or ask if they have a fire extinguisher and health insurance. I simply say "Imagine a situation where one's having a firearm saves his life. If it happens to me, I live. If it happens to you, you die".

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Common one for me: "Why do you need to carry a gun? What are you afraid of? The odds that you'll ever need it are so slim."

    So I counter with: Do you and your family have a plan in case of a home fire? Escape routes, ladders, place to meet? Ever drill?


    Do you teach your kids not to talk to strangers? Never ever get in a car with one? Do you drill this (and today, many families do role-play this)


    THose odds are no different than a situation where I 'might' need to defend myself with a gun. I'm just being prepared....like you.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #14
    AzB
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    Never try to teach a pig to sing.
    It frustrates you and annoys the pig.
    +1. It's their life and not my business how they want to live it.
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

  15. #15
    Member Array kccad's Avatar
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    As with some others, I rarely get into "conversations" with antis anymore. When debating self-defense, one question I do ask them, either through an online or face-to-face debate is this....

    "Is your anti-gun ideology so strong....that if your only chance to defend your family was with a firearm....would you choose to watch them die, instead?"

    I usually get red faces and no replies. What little I do get usually goes along the line of..."that is an unrealistic scenario"...or..."there is always other options". Whatever the response, it usually ends up with them presenting a circular argument to try to get me to understand what they really meant, as if I didn't get it the first time.

    They realize they've been trapped by their own weak ideology...for if they say they would use the gun, they look hypocritical and/or elitist. If they say they wouldn't use it, then they look like a cold-hearted SOB that would put ideology over the lives of their family.

    Years ago during lunch break at work, I asked that very question of a lady co-worker while she was attempting to make me look like a nutcase in front of the entire lunch crowd. Her response was "What you say doesn't happen very often, so it's not worth the trade-off". In front of a silent break room full of about 30 people, I said "Since we all know that our children look to us to be their protectors, I challenge you...or any parent...to have that conversation with their children and see what response they get. Try looking into your 8-year-old daughter's eyes and tell her that she may have to endure a gang-rape and painful death because her suffering will be for the greater good of gun-free mankind!"

    Needless to say, that shut her up tight and she never talked to me again...which, by the way, was an added bonus . I had a few people tell me over the next few days that they had never thought about the things that I said that day and felt that it all made sense. However, I quickly found out during the next few years that facts and logic fall on deaf ears with some people. Now I stick with debating people that seem to be on the fence on gun issues, and tell the extremists I'm not interested in wasting my time. I find I have less headaches that way.

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