I'm Royally POed at Hornady

This is a discussion on I'm Royally POed at Hornady within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm royally PO-ed at Hornady , Last night I was watching the Outdoor Channel and saw that a show about defensive ammo was about to ...

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Thread: I'm Royally POed at Hornady

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    I'm Royally POed at Hornady

    I'm royally PO-ed at Hornady ,

    Last night I was watching the Outdoor Channel and saw that a show about defensive ammo was about to air so I decided to watch it.
    This turned out to be little more than and infomercial for Hornady's
    new Critical Defense Ammo.They never showed any other brand of ammo.

    But thats not why I'm mad at them, I'm mad because their spokesman says that this new ammo does not meet FBI minimum penetration and its OK because its for civilians and we don,t need to shoot through glass, walls or doors and if we do we would likely go to jail.

    How can he know what we will need to do to defend ourself?

    OK, so if some womans estranged husband chases her into a bedroom and she shuts the door and he starts shoot through it at her, Hornaday said she is not to shoot back and to just take the bullets and die?

    Why , because they are trying to sell their new great and wonderful ammo?

    What if someone is shooting into my car and I,m inside and have to shoot through the glass back at them?

    Sorry, Hornady said I don,t need to do that , guess I just need to lay down and die , right?

    I was thinking about trying their new ammo for my new LCP and G26 but now I NEVER WILL.

    Everyone knows you need shot placement and penetration
    and if respected self defense gyros are going to sell themselves and their names on TV shows like that I can,t trust anything thy say anymore.

    Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. (Rant Off)
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I think you are seriously over reacting here. Most private citizens will never be in asituation that requires barrier penetration. It is not that the new stuff will not penetrate, but will not perform thru hard barriers like others are designed to do. In most SD situations you do not want overpenetration.

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    I'm royally PO-ed at Hornady ,

    Last night I was watching the Outdoor Channel and saw that a show about defensive ammo was about to air so I decided to watch it.
    This turned out to be little more than and infomercial for Hornady's
    new Critical Defense Ammo.They never showed any other brand of ammo.

    But thats not why I'm mad at them, I'm mad because their spokesman says that this new ammo does not meet FBI minimum penetration and its OK because its for civilians and we don,t need to shoot through glass, walls or doors and if we do we would likely go to jail.

    How can he know what we will need to do to defend ourself?

    OK, so if some womans estranged husband chases her into a bedroom and she shuts the door and he starts shoot through it at her, Hornaday said she is not to shoot back and to just take the bullets and die?

    Why , because they are trying to sell their new great and wonderful ammo?

    What if someone is shooting into my car and I,m inside and have to shoot through the glass back at them?

    Sorry, Hornady said I don,t need to do that , guess I just need to lay down and die , right?

    I was thinking about trying their new ammo for my new LCP and G26 but now I NEVER WILL.

    Everyone knows you need shot placement and penetration
    and if respected self defense gyros are going to sell themselves and their names on TV shows like that I can,t trust anything thy say anymore.

    Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. (Rant Off)
    That's why I never bother watching such shows; the amount of mis-information passed off as fact is monumental.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I don't want any ammo that tells you up front that there is no penetration. I'll watch for the repeat performance. Thanks for posting.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    What if, what if, what if....here we go. What if you are involved in a SD shooting and your load overpenetrates and kills
    someone not involved. I think any company should be applauded for acknowledging the different needs of Joe citizen and catering to them.

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think you are seriously over reacting here. Most private citizens will never be in a situation that requires barrier penetration.
    Really. Chill out, dude! It's a TV show, what do you expect? If Hornady sponsored it, they're gonna hawk their stuff.

    In SC: To shoot, you must be able to prove you were in fear of imminent danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury. If the BG is still on the other side of the door or wall, even if he's shooting, that's gonna be a fine line to prove in court. If he shoots into your car, it's likely the glass is broken anyway, so the point is moot. If he's not attacking and you shoot through whatever cover/shelter he's taken - it's gonna be your butt in court.

    The responsibilities and duties of both the FBI and the local LEOS are MUCH different from ours.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    What if, what if, what if....here we go. What if you are involved in a SD shooting and your load overpenetrates and kills
    someone not involved. I think any company should be applauded for acknowledging the different needs of Joe citizen and catering to them.

    This is not just about what ifs
    Its about someone telling us something just to sell us a their product.
    Look at it this way , What if someone told you that you don,t need a
    gun bigger than .380 because of over penetration just because they put a new .380 handgun on the market ?
    What would you said Mr.glockman10mm ?

    Would you change you sign on name to Glockman9mm
    with a disclaimer note that you only use Hornady ammo because you don,t really need a full power 9mm to defend your life?

    I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to make a point.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

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    Yeah, an informercial promoting the qualities of your product, and minimizing (or not mentioning at all) the drawbacks. The nerve!
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

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    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    I saw it too. I had no problem with it and found the "infomercial" to be interesting at the very least. Maybe it was the same show or another that came on after...but there Rob Pincus and the other guy (can't remember his name) were shooting various rounds through a refrigerator to test penetration of various calibers. They started with 9mm and went through .223 and 12g too. The 9mm hollowpoint (pretty sure it was a hornady) popped two clean holes in the front and back of that fridge. I thought that it would have mushroomed sooner. So the fact that a 9mm Critical Defense round (assuming my memory is correct) can penetrate something like a refrigerator suggests the OP's assumption that Critical Defense rounds have sub-par penentration might be a little off. Seemed to penetrate just fine to me.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman23 View Post
    I saw it too. I had no problem with it and found the "infomercial" to be interesting at the very least. Maybe it was the same show or another that came on after...but there Rob Pincus and the other guy (can't remember his name) were shooting various rounds through a refrigerator to test penetration of various calibers. They started with 9mm and went through .223 and 12g too. The 9mm hollowpoint (pretty sure it was a hornady) popped two clean holes in the front and back of that fridge. I thought that it would have mushroomed sooner. So the fact that a 9mm Critical Defense round (assuming my memory is correct) can penetrate something like a refrigerator suggests the OP's assumption that Critical Defense rounds have sub-par penentration might be a little off. Seemed to penetrate just fine to me.
    The point they were making by shooting the refrigerator was that it was not good cover , not that Hornady rounds would shoot through it.
    In fact I don't remember them saying they were using Hornady rounds to shoot the refrigerator at all.

    I do remember them saying they were using 147 grain Hps when
    they shot the walls and am thinking they used the same thing an the
    refrigerator but don't quote me on that.

    Oh and by the way I said they said their rounds were sub-par .
    For them to say we can make do with sub-par rounds because we are not LEO,Thats what makes me so mad.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    This is not just about what ifs
    Its about someone telling us something just to sell us a their product.
    Look at it this way , What if someone told you that you don,t need a
    gun bigger than .380 because of over penetration just because they put a new .380 handgun on the market ?
    What would you said Mr.glockman10mm ?

    Would you change you sign on name to Glockman9mm
    with a disclaimer note that you only use Hornady ammo because you don,t really need a full power 9mm to defend your life?

    I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to make a point.
    . Iknow you are just expressing your views. If my beloved 10mm did not have loads I could buy or reload that would make it a good SD load without overpenetrating quality, then yes, I may have adopted another inet name. I did not choose 10mm for it's power alone but also for it's versatility. Do not get upset at Hornady, they have just given you another good option.

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    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    The point they were making by shooting the refrigerator was that it was not good cover , not that Hornady rounds would shoot through it.
    In fact I don't remember them saying they were using Hornady rounds to shoot the refrigerator at all.

    I do remember them saying they were using 147 grain Hps when
    they shot the walls and am thinking they used the same thing an the
    refrigerator but don't quote me on that.

    Oh and by the way I said they said their rounds were sub-par .
    For them to say we can make do with sub-par rounds because we are not LEO,Thats what makes me so mad.
    Maybe they didn't specifically say they were Hornady with the 9mm....Like I said in my previous post, assuming my memory was correct. BUT I'm pretty sure I do recall them saying they were Hornady Critical Defense with the .223 They fired 2 rounds from the AR...their observations were that the Critical Defense round penetrated less than the other. That's in line with the claims they made on the show that upset you so much....less penetration.

    I guess it all boils down to the fact that their attempt to promote a product, which I personally like, had the opposite intended effect on one consumer, you. I respect your opinion....buy what you want. Get angry at one commercial and don't buy their product...I don't care. I simply wanted to add that IF....IF....they were 9mm Critical Defense rounds...they seemed to penetrate a hard surface..a refrigerator...quite well. I have to agree with Glockman's previous observation that most armed citizens will likely never have to shoot through a car door. The bedroom door is one thing...but a car door and other FBI penetration tests are totally another. I'm a citizen...not a special agent.

    Good luck with your ammo choices! I don't think Hornady intended to draw out such anger with their ad.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    I was thinking about trying their new ammo for my new LCP and G26 but now I NEVER WILL.
    Good, more for me!!

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Guess you could say thats an assa9 way of looking at it. Sorry, couldn't resist!

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    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Guess you could day thats an assa9 way of looking at it. Sorry, couldn't resist!

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