Winchester Ranger (RA9SXT) 9mm 147gr.

Winchester Ranger (RA9SXT) 9mm 147gr.

This is a discussion on Winchester Ranger (RA9SXT) 9mm 147gr. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I bought a box of this ammo at my local gun shop. The guy told me that it is supposed to be some of the ...

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Thread: Winchester Ranger (RA9SXT) 9mm 147gr.

  1. #1
    New Member Array tbizzle's Avatar
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    Winchester Ranger (RA9SXT) 9mm 147gr.

    I bought a box of this ammo at my local gun shop. The guy told me that it is supposed to be some of the best ammo available.

    What can you guys tell me about it? The guy at the shop was saying something about Black Talon? Not sure what he was talking about.

    I couldn't find any info on it on the Winchester website.

    The box says Ranger Law Enforcement Ammunition

    I'm using it in my Kahr CW9 for personal defense.

    Is it any good?

    Where would I find ballistics or tests or something about it?


    Thanks,


    tbizzle


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    This link may help you out
    YouTube - Winchester Ranger 9mm 147 gr Bonded JHP with Denim

    This is my carry load , just for your reference
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcwaM...1&feature=fvwp
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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    A thread where this is discussed What's the difference between RA9T and RA9SXT? - Glock Talk

    The verdict? It's an old Black Talon that Winchester repackaged without the black bullet. The RA9T is simply the updated version that is profiled differently and has some other minor adjustments. What you purchased is very good.
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    Member Array cavnamvet's Avatar
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    I have used the win ranger 147 sxt and still have some. The box should be marked RA9T is the corner.. It is soft shooting good ammo and expands reliably with very good penetration. Some guys don't like it because of the lower velocity compared to some of the lighter 9mm rounds and the more common version is not +p. It's the old argument between lighter faster rounds and slower heavier rounds. Both do the job.

    The Ranger round used to be the black talon and the HP bullet was black in color. As a matter of fact, some of the early ranger rounds still had the black bullet but eventually changed to the copper color used today.. all of the color and name change was due to political correctness.

    I still have some of the old black talon stuff, both in 9 and 40 cal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.
    Quote from here.

  6. #6
    Member Array impactwrench's Avatar
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    my local range sells me those for self defense. i like that they come in a 50 pack instead of 20-25 like speers or others.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    I like high velocity +P's 124-127 gr. out of a short Bbl. I only carry 147 in a full size gun.

  8. #8
    Member Array hunter won's Avatar
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    If you shoot the 147 grain make sure that you have a long barrel 9mm handgun like the S&W 5906 or Beretta 92F.Many of the early shootings with this round resulted in very poor one shot stops.The FBI great Miami shootout gave the 9mm 115 grain Win Silvertip plenty of bad press.But reality is that the 158 grain SWCHP Win 38 spl.along with the 12 ga double OO buck all failed with poor tactics by the doomed FBI agents.What resulted was the 147 grain 9mm hollowpoint.Law Enforcement was jumping on the new heavier bullet.What happened was overpenetration, failure to expand,failure to cycle weapon.Now a properly loaded 147 grain loaded at over 1000 FPS out of a G26 could be a good performer but most of these bullets go about 950 FPS out of a 5inch gun.Velocity is key with the 9mm hollowpoint.The U.S.B.P. used the 115 grain +P+ with outstanding results.I would stay away from the 147 grain.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter won View Post
    If you shoot the 147 grain make sure that you have a long barrel 9mm handgun like the S&W 5906 or Beretta 92F.Many of the early shootings with this round resulted in very poor one shot stops.The FBI great Miami shootout gave the 9mm 115 grain Win Silvertip plenty of bad press.But reality is that the 158 grain SWCHP Win 38 spl.along with the 12 ga double OO buck all failed with poor tactics by the doomed FBI agents.What resulted was the 147 grain 9mm hollowpoint.Law Enforcement was jumping on the new heavier bullet.What happened was overpenetration, failure to expand,failure to cycle weapon.Now a properly loaded 147 grain loaded at over 1000 FPS out of a G26 could be a good performer but most of these bullets go about 950 FPS out of a 5inch gun.Velocity is key with the 9mm hollowpoint.The U.S.B.P. used the 115 grain +P+ with outstanding results.I would stay away from the 147 grain.
    First off, let's just deal with the myth of "one stop shots". It's a myth, and does disservice to reference this myth in relation to bullet performance. Period.

    Second off, your data would be relevant 25 years ago with the early 147gr designs...but the modern 147gr bullets such as HST, Ranger-SX(T), and Gold Dot are designed to reliably open up at lower velocities, even out of shorter barreled handguns (Winchester, for this reason, recommends the use of the 147gr Ranger-T's out of short barreled 9mm's such as the Glock 26).

    I'll add that, all things being equal, the slower/heavier bullets are actually also better performers as to penetration depth out of short barreled pistols because they lose, as a percentage, less velocity than the warp-speed lightweight screamers.

    With newer designs, velocity is not the key to getting proper expansion. The bullet design is, and they work great.

    To the OP--these are great rounds with a proven track record. Assuming your carry gun likes them, and they shoot with what you consider acceptible accuracy and control, they are an excellent carry round.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    The SXT version of the Talon bullet is the original Black Talon bullet without the special coating that made it black. (Can't remember what that coating is called at the moment). This is an older bullet design and has been since updated by Winchester.

    That being said, they are still a decent SD round, but my understanding is that they failed to expand in 4-layer denim testing. The newer Win Ranger-T series expand to larger diameters and are more reliable in terms of expansion.

    These Winchester loads are all vetted by Dr. Roberts:

    9 mm:
    Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
    Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
    Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
    Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T) --> This is the upgraded version of the RA9SXT bullet.
    Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

    I would use any of the above rounds for SD.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The Ranger T-Series (not the SXT) is the best of the Winchester line and one of the top defensive rounds available. Federal HST and T-Series are my choices, HST being the first choice for me.

    SXT is considered their civilian line and the t-series is considered the law enforcement line, as stated on the box. Federal and Winchester state these loads are to be Law Enforcement only, but you can find distributors that will sell them to you.
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    Member Array yoyomeng's Avatar
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    Thread CPR...need a smiley for that

    Looking at these rounds:

    Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

    I've seen some stuff online indicating they are better our of short barrel guns compared to the RA9SXT. Considering them for my Kahr CW9.

    Anyone else hear that too?

  13. #13
    Member Array Drew78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    First off, let's just deal with the myth of "one stop shots". It's a myth, and does disservice to reference this myth in relation to bullet performance. Period.

    Second off, your data would be relevant 25 years ago with the early 147gr designs...but the modern 147gr bullets such as HST, Ranger-SX(T), and Gold Dot are designed to reliably open up at lower velocities, even out of shorter barreled handguns (Winchester, for this reason, recommends the use of the 147gr Ranger-T's out of short barreled 9mm's such as the Glock 26).

    I'll add that, all things being equal, the slower/heavier bullets are actually also better performers as to penetration depth out of short barreled pistols because they lose, as a percentage, less velocity than the warp-speed lightweight screamers.

    With newer designs, velocity is not the key to getting proper expansion. The bullet design is, and they work great.

    To the OP--these are great rounds with a proven track record. Assuming your carry gun likes them, and they shoot with what you consider acceptible accuracy and control, they are an excellent carry round.

    Boy is there a lot of bad/mis-info in this thread!!! Cuda nailed it. It is an updated round from the old Black Talon and even SXT version. Heavy ammo like 147gr in 9mm works better than "high velocity" ammo from the same short bbl. Reason is that with your 115-124gr rounds most of the powder is burnt up outside the bbl and not getting the bullet up into its "optimal velocity window".

    I have confirmed this with both LE reps from Winchester and Federal. Both HIGHLY suggested running the 147 in the HST and Ranger line from sub 4" bbls.

    -Drew

    p.s. The RA9T is an EXCELLENT round for SD.

  14. #14
    Member Array Tarowah's Avatar
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    I think some of you have it wrong about 147gr and short barrels, from what I understand the heavy slower 9mm rounds are fine in short barrels because the bullet is moving slower and all of the powder has time to burn, with the super hot stuff like the light +P+ ammo you lose velocity much quicker and you dont get a full powder burn.

    Pulled from here. 9mm 147gr and Short Barrels [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

    In a response to a question about which grain 9mm Ranger ammo to use in a short barreled pistol including 3.5" and 3", I got the following response from Winchester LE Ammo:

    When we redesigned the Ranger T Series of ammunition we widened the velocity window under which the round would expand to allow for the slower velocities that shorter than standard barrels produce. What this means is that if you own a standard or sub compact pistol the round should have adequate expansion. In 9mm I would recommend the 147 grain bullet as it loses a lower velocity percentage than the faster lighter bullet in shorter than normal barrels. This is because the bullet has more dwell time in the bore and has a greater opportunity to burn the powder before the bullet exits the bore. Powder that is burned outside the bore does nothing for velocity. The lighter faster bullets generally have more powder to burn and since the lighter faster bullets have less time in the bore they are not efficient burners of powder in the shorter barrels.

    We increased the velocity window under which the round would expand by increasing the size of the hollowpoint, tweaking the jacket thickness and the depth of the cuts on the inside of the jacket petal segments.

    Sincerely,

    Paul Nowak
    Senior Technical Specialist
    Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition
    Gen 3 G19 ~ Gen 3 G19 OD ~ Gen 3 G34 ~ PT 738 ~ M&P 9mm ~ Ruger 22/45 4" bull barrel ~ Marlin 60~ PSA M4 Carbine ~

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    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    I like high velocity +P's 124-127 gr. out of a short Bbl. I only carry 147 in a full size gun.
    I do the opposite. Slow bullets lose a smaller percentage of their velocity in short barrels and therefore stay closer to their designed velocity window.

    I use either Winchester RA9T or Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P in my Springfield XDM. They expand the same. The Winchester penetrates slightly more. In my old S&W P99C, I always used RA9T.

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