HD Shotgun Ammo - Page 2

HD Shotgun Ammo

This is a discussion on HD Shotgun Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have my Rem 870 loaded with 2 3/4 '' military grade buckshot. It has a great wide spread at 15 yards with my no ...

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Thread: HD Shotgun Ammo

  1. #16
    Member Array Ronny's Avatar
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    I have my Rem 870 loaded with 2 3/4 '' military grade buckshot. It has a great wide spread at 15 yards with my no choke barrel. You don't want a 30" barrel or a flight control wad in your bedroom gun.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ANY ammo, in ANY firearm, that will penetrate to the vitals on a BG, will also penetrate several interior walls in the event of an outright miss. In the event of a good hit to center of mass, I would not worry too much about overpenetration, unless you are using slugs.

    The only use for slugs in a defensive shotgun is for reaching out farther than you can with buckshot. Indoors, this is not an issue - use buckshot.

    The data I have seen recommends #1 buckshot as the best blend of pellet size, penetration, and number of pellets. If you cannot find it, then 00 is a good substitute.

    See this link:

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

    From the linked article:

    Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

    In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

    For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

    Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.



    While #1 buck might be ideal IF the the shot is hardened, the reality is that these loads might be hard to find. If finding hardened #1 proves elusive, 00 buck is a great choice instead.



    Hope that helps!
    #1 buck has not been the recipient of much R&D in terms of pattern control or low recoil loads.

    While #1 may be technically superior in terms of wound ballistics, bringing shot patterning and follow up shots into the equation make Federal & Hornady tactical offerings more appealing.

    While #1 may be hypothetically superior on a 1:1 shot basis, the question to ask is "What is better to fight with?"

  3. #18
    Member Array LoadedPipes's Avatar
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    My mossy is loaded with (2) #00 buck followed up by slugs, by the time I get to the slugs the situation might require a distance shot. Hopefully no one is left standing after the first spray of buckshot.

  4. #19
    Member Array chiefrcd's Avatar
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    I to prefer the Federal Law Enforcement Low Recoil Rounds, both 00 buck and Slug. Much reduced recoil, even my wife will shoot them.
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  5. #20
    Member Array 45tek's Avatar
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    I have Hornady TAP 00 buck = 1600 fps /2415 ft. lbs. of energy.
    I also have some Remington Slugger High Velocity( just in case) and some Federal Premium.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    #1 buck has not been the recipient of much R&D in terms of pattern control or low recoil loads.
    It's not a popular shot size, as #00 has been standard for some time, despite the IWBA recommendation of #1 shot.

    While #1 may be technically superior in terms of wound ballistics, bringing shot patterning and follow up shots into the equation make Federal & Hornady tactical offerings more appealing.
    You don't have much spread to contend with inside your home. At most distances in the average home, your shot pattern will not be wider than a man's chest.

    While #1 may be hypothetically superior on a 1:1 shot basis, the question to ask is "What is better to fight with?"
    Well, I personally select the #1 size for better overall performance than all other shot sizes available. My #1 buckshot ammo I sell locally does well on deer and bear.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  7. #22
    Member Array bomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    I keep it "cruiser ready", loaded with 00buck, and slugs in the side saddle.

    this.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Bigger patterns in a HD shotgun is not the right answer. I was using Federal Low Recoil Flite Control but my house is a split plan and I have kids downrange of my bedroom. Even though I "armored" the rooms with strategically placed bookcases and such, I still don't like the risk. I've got Remington Duplex loads with #2 and #4 or #6 birdshot until I can get some Flite Control with big birdshot ordered. At the ranges in my house it works. I don't have a huge place and a miss with 00 or a slug would land in the kids room or my neighbor's kitchen.

    For a long time I kept Federal's old Personal Defense loads of plated #2 shot, but I never bothered to pattern it. When I did I found out it had a spreader wad in it and sprayed shot all over the place. Lesson learned, make sure what you use works and patterns in your gun even if you have to spend a few bucks to make sure.

    And I think long and tightly choked hunting guns are under appreciated for HD use. At least in suburban or urban areas. If you have the ability to stay in one place and cover your bedroom door or maybe a hall or stairway from a fixed position the length of the gun doesn't matter. Most people don't need to be moving through their house with a long gun. Maybe best of all, hunting style guns are available cheap in every pawn or gun shop after hunting season every year. Pop out the limiting plug and you'll be a lot better off than with an 18" pistol grip only gun.
    Last edited by Superhouse 15; May 24th, 2010 at 12:09 PM.

  9. #24
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    I like 00 and #4 buck for HD. I currently have 00 radey but for most in home distances I don't see a problem with #4 buck
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  10. #25
    Member Array puffer's Avatar
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    Here is my choice


    Hornady "Law Enforcement"TAP 00 Buck, Reduced recoil - Pump ( in my Benelli Nova w/ a Mercury recoil reducer.)

    At 20 yd.s I get a about 6"+ spread ( as opposed to the normal 20" spread.)
    Note- Hornady claims under 5" - Hornady : Law Enforcement | Products | 12 GA TAP® REDUCED RECOIL™ 00 BUCK - 12 GA TAP® REDUCED RECOIL™ 00 BUCK

    Hornady also offers a "civilian" version ( supposed to patten "close to the LE ??) - Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Shotgun :: Buckshot :: 12 Ga. Mag 00 Buckshot TAP® FPD™

    I realize that using 00 increases the possibility of "collateral" damage, PRACTICE (shot placement) & the tighter "group" greatly minimizes this. I do not "trust "other size pellets do do the JOB.

    Puffer

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Ranger low recoil 9 pellet 00 Buck and matching slugs.
    Who is John Galt?

    Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...

  12. #27
    Member Array Ronny's Avatar
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    To everyone that said slugs I have to ask, why? What do you think slugs do at 5 yard ranges that buckshot won't? Except make a smaller hole in the BG and overpenetrate your neighbors house? If I'm in that situation which I hope I never will be. Then I want all the buckshot spread I can get to slatter that BG all over. I want to be able to drive my truck through his torso without getting any blood on it...

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
    To everyone that said slugs I have to ask, why? What do you think slugs do at 5 yard ranges that buckshot won't?
    Offer a more traumatic wound channel, deeper penetration, more area of permanent tissue damage. Me? I'd rather punch a 3/4 inch hole through someone's chest than spray some lead balls into a cute pattern that might get to the vitals.


    Except make a smaller hole in the BG and overpenetrate your neighbors house?
    Nope and nope.

    Then I want all the buckshot spread I can get to slatter that BG all over. I want to be able to drive my truck through his torso without getting any blood on it...
    I would rather a tight concentrated pattern for maximum damage to the vitals.

    This isn't Hollywood.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  14. #29
    Member Array xdglocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Offer a more traumatic wound channel, deeper penetration, more area of permanent tissue damage. Me? I'd rather punch a 3/4 inch hole through someone's chest than spray some lead balls into a cute pattern that might get to the vitals.



    Nope and nope.


    I would rather a tight concentrated pattern for maximum damage to the vitals.

    This isn't Hollywood.
    +1 to that.

    I personally know of a woman who took buck to the chest and shoulder @ 25ft and was able to run away and call for help. She had some nasty damage done but lived and was able to function enough to save her own life.

    As far as over-penetration, with the right slugs, it's a non-issue. That's why I use Brenneke Tac HD. Made specifically for urban CQC. They give me option of CQC or if needed, to go long without needing to think about what color to take out of the saddle in a SHTF situ.

    I like my 00 buck too but the slugs are first up and at the ready.
    Bob

    Glock 30sf Ruger LCP Remington 870 HD Hi-Point 995TS Sig 556

    "I'm not Paranoid.....I'm Prepared"--SGT T

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Offer a more traumatic wound channel, deeper penetration, more area of permanent tissue damage. Me? I'd rather punch a 3/4 inch hole through someone's chest than spray some lead balls into a cute pattern that might get to the vitals.



    Nope and nope.


    I would rather a tight concentrated pattern for maximum damage to the vitals.

    This isn't Hollywood.
    +2

    Slugs are well proven as "effective", even at close range.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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