HD Shotgun Ammo - Page 5

HD Shotgun Ammo

This is a discussion on HD Shotgun Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the academy, we test fired some of the "buck and ball". At 5yds it gives a perfect patern with the ball in the center, ...

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Thread: HD Shotgun Ammo

  1. #61
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    In the academy, we test fired some of the "buck and ball". At 5yds it gives a perfect patern with the ball in the center, and the buck shot evenly spaced around it in a 4" diameter pattern. IMO, it is great for CQC, since it gives both shot and slug performance. Past 20 yrds, the large ball was unreliable at best.
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  2. #62
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    Remington 00 buckshot for my short barrel pump gun, 12 ga, 2 3/4 inch. I sure wouldn't want to be downrange from this old girl.

  3. #63
    Member Array Ronny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    One of my EMT instructors is a former sheriff's deputy that took a load of 00 to the back of his thigh at point blank range while doing a high-risk entry. When it occurred, he didn't even realize he'd been shot until he started to fall down(took out a chunk of femur)...he thought somebody behind him had dropped a flashbang. He didn't bleed out in 40 seconds, even though the femoral was hit.

    Leg is still attached, he walks with a slight limp.

    Like I said earlier, the shotgun is not the be-all, end-all weapon you seem to think it is.
    I'm glad your friend is still with us. It's a miracle. God and the men he works through were with him that day. Did he recieve first aid by trained experts to halt (or drasticly slow the rate of) the blood loss from the femeral within 10-20 seconds? He must also have been within a few minutes of a level 1 trauma center. If your friend hadn't been a cop in that situation surrounded by other cops doing first aid and with a zero response time do you think he would still be with us?

    If it had been a blast to the chest it probably wouldn't have mattered if there were 20 EMTs in the room with him. Once the damage is so extensive with destroyed and minced organs and arteries, neither humpdy dumpdy or any human being can be put back together.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    People need to stop overstating the effectiveness of any small arm and realize that shotguns and rifles suck less than handguns, but they still aren't the death rays they are made out to be.

    Go back to fundamentals.

    Agressive mindset.
    Proper, aggressively executed tactics.
    Proper weapon handling under pressure.
    Reliable weapons.
    Reliable ammo.
    Ammo that meets whatever standard of performance that you believe in (FBI/IWBA/One Shot Stop Stats...)

    Then...

    Leave it alone.

    I'd rather face someone who's got a killer tactical shotgun with top notch ammo that thinks a shotgun is a death ray that spreads shot like a claymore mine than a guy with a side by side break open 20 ga with #4 buck who's received professional training.

    Get some dummy shells and practice with them till the rims are so worn they get stuck in the chambers of your shotgun. Then it won't matter what ammo you use.

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that you do not need to KILL in order to stop the threat. The deputy in the example above was not able to continue the mission.

    MitchellCT - I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your sentiments about training.

    I will agree with you that all small arms are just that - SMALL arms. None are death rays with any guarantees.

    That said - there is nothing wrong with trying to learn what the "best" is for a given situation...as long as we all understand that the differences will be minimal. We're discussing shades of grey, not black and white.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    People need to stop overstating the effectiveness of any small arm and realize that shotguns and rifles suck less than handguns, but they still aren't the death rays they are made out to be.

    Go back to fundamentals.

    Agressive mindset.
    Proper, aggressively executed tactics.
    Proper weapon handling under pressure.
    Reliable weapons.
    Reliable ammo.
    Ammo that meets whatever standard of performance that you believe in (FBI/IWBA/One Shot Stop Stats...)

    Then...

    Leave it alone.

    I'd rather face someone who's got a killer tactical shotgun with top notch ammo that thinks a shotgun is a death ray that spreads shot like a claymore mine than a guy with a side by side break open 20 ga with #4 buck who's received professional training.

    Get some dummy shells and practice with them till the rims are so worn they get stuck in the chambers of your shotgun. Then it won't matter what ammo you use.
    Wow...glad you got that off your chest.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
    I'm glad your friend is still with us. It's a miracle. God and the men he works through were with him that day. Did he recieve first aid by trained experts to halt (or drasticly slow the rate of) the blood loss from the femeral within 10-20 seconds? He must also have been within a few minutes of a level 1 trauma center. If your friend hadn't been a cop in that situation surrounded by other cops doing first aid and with a zero response time do you think he would still be with us?

    If it had been a blast to the chest it probably wouldn't have mattered if there were 20 EMTs in the room with him. Once the damage is so extensive with destroyed and minced organs and arteries, neither humpdy dumpdy or any human being can be put back together.
    Well, there you go.

    That's not how shotguns work, but you don't wanna give up your strongly held beliefs, no matter what the facts are...so it's not worth my or anybody else's time to try and explain it to you.

    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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