Did I ruin my Gold Dots?

Did I ruin my Gold Dots?

This is a discussion on Did I ruin my Gold Dots? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had some concerns a while back about my Springer 1911 Mil-Spec having issues feeding 230gr Gold Dot Hollow Points. I had been taking the ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Exclamation Did I ruin my Gold Dots?

    I had some concerns a while back about my Springer 1911 Mil-Spec having issues feeding 230gr Gold Dot Hollow Points.
    I had been taking the magazines, filling them to capacity with the slide back, I would then hit the slide release and I
    would usually get an FTF, clear it, and then cycle the slide to eject them until the slide locked open. Upon closer inspection
    today before I went out job hunting I looked at the Gold Dots and discovered they are all different sizes in terms of total length now.

    The hollow opening is also smaller on some of the rounds and most of these small opening rounds look as if they have
    been rammed deeper into the cartridge by the feed ramp and barrel throat where they come together (the place my
    hollow points were getting stuck at.) The still normal height rounds feed solidly now, but the small ones won't feed if
    they are the first round on a fresh mag. If you look closely at my pictures you will see that it looks as if the little bulge
    where the end of the bullet meets the cartridge casing is moved down about 1/8" and is about the same drop
    measured from the top of the low bullets compared to the others.


    Are they still usable as range round, or are they unsafe to fire now?
    I have some PMC Starfire 230gr that I can rotate into carry now that I'm unsure of the safety and potential reliability of the Gold Dots.
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  2. #2
    Member Array Ronny's Avatar
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    I'd be nervous about firing them in that condition in my gun. I'd rent a range gun and wear double eye protection. j/k Personally, I would probably just bury them in my back yard now, they're trashed, way out of spec. Let us know the results if you do shoot them.

  3. #3
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    Bullet set-back. Repeatedly chambering the same round will push the bullet back into to the case. This can cause an over pressure situation when firing. I will usually rotate the chambered round out of service after a few times in and out of the chamber. These I use as practice ammo.
    "Mind own business"
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Correct on the set-back.

    DO NOT fire the rounds that are shorter; if you know somebody with reloading equipment, you could pull the bullets and reuse them...if not, dispose of them in a safe manner.

    Repeated chambering of live ammo is never a good idea.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  5. #5
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    Yep, setback. Happens from chambering and rechambering rounds. Stop that. Those rds with severe setback can be dangerous. If you have a concern with your pistol feeding, get it looked at by a gunsmith.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleipnir View Post
    ... they are all different sizes in terms of total length now.

    The hollow opening is also smaller on some of the rounds ...

    ... most of these small opening rounds look as if they have been rammed deeper into the cartridge by the feed ramp and barrel throat ...
    I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with firing it in my gun, at least for that lot.

    If this is a brand-name ammunition, I would present the case to that company. If sub-standard after simple, normal procedures, then I am sure they will be very interested to know about the problems. You very likely might get compensated for the ammo that's gone bad, perhaps all of it, since it might well be a case-lot problem.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with firing it in my gun, at least for that lot.

    If this is a brand-name ammunition, I would present the case to that company. If sub-standard after simple, normal procedures, then I am sure they will be very interested to know about the problems. You very likely might get compensated for the ammo that's gone bad, perhaps all of it, since it might well be a case-lot problem.
    It's not the ammo company's fault he chambered them so many times the bullet walked back into the case...
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    It's not the ammo company's fault he chambered them so many times the bullet walked back into the case...
    How many times, then, was it cycled? From what I read, that's not indicated.

    Almost certainly, the jamming applied forces on the jammed rounds that could change the OAL. Can't imagine that mere cycling would change the OAL on the other rounds, unless cycling of the rounds to within an inch of their lives was done.

    In the past, I have had several rounds here and there (though, not Speer Gold Dots) that had inferior case mouth tension that did much the same thing, sometimes upon simple cycling but certainly upon jamming.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Snowman23's Avatar
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    I had the same problem with God Dot's in my 1911. Nosedive into feedramp from a full mag. Not only would they set back...but some would jam so hard on the feed ramp it would actually dent/distort the round cavity of bullet. I disposed of them safely. Gold Dot's have not been the best for reliability for me in my 1911. Sounds like your having similar issues. I'd try something else...be careful with those that are set back.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Do not fire the bullets that are shorter,it's very possible they have compressed the powder charge,which means that it increases the pressure when ignited and can damage your gun and possibly your body.If you know a reloader they can pull the bullets and reset them at the correct OAL.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    How many times, then, was it cycled? From what I read, that's not indicated.

    Almost certainly, the jamming applied forces on the jammed rounds that could change the OAL. Can't imagine that mere cycling would change the OAL on the other rounds, unless cycling of the rounds to within an inch of their lives was done.

    In the past, I have had several rounds here and there (though, not Speer Gold Dots) that had inferior case mouth tension that did much the same thing, sometimes upon simple cycling but certainly upon jamming.
    You obviously missed this part in the OP, then:

    I had been taking the magazines, filling them to capacity with the slide back, I would then hit the slide release and I
    would usually get an FTF, clear it, and then cycle the slide to eject them until the slide locked open.
    If he was having feed issues, the bullet was being slammed into the ramp (or something else), forcing the bullet back into the case.

    Not Speer's fault.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    every time a round slams into the feed ramp it is shortened a bit...continued practice of this shortens them significantly and makes them dangerous to shoot...souble eye protection and a rented gun isnt going to save your hand in a kaboom and the expense of renting the gun would be offset by just buying new ammo...or as suggested pull the bullets and start over with reloading equipment...

    if you regularly remove mags and the chambered round in your guns (i know some unload every night...why i dont know)...you should rotate the first round so you arent slamming the same round into the ramp everytime you load up...interstingly enough the round you count on the most is the one youve continually removed and reloaded and to have it fail due to too much setback would be a real bummer when you need it the most...some guys unload the mag and drop the chambere round to the bottm of the pile to avoid continually slamming the same round in...

    live and learn....

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    Get a fresh box and cycle them through the pistol manually one at a time letting the slide slam into battery...
    Check each round for setback.. If you are getting the type of setback as shown on some of the rounds in the photo you have a problem with feed ramp angle or lip angle on the magazines or both... A round chambered for the first time should not be having the bullet rammed back into the brass to the degree shown in the photos.

    OMO

    bosco

  14. #14
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    If the the cartridges only appear "shorter" because you caved in the hollow bullet noses and the actual bullets themselves did not set back into the cases then you could still shoot those.

    If you're not absolutely sure if it's one or the other though...don't shoot them if the entire bullet is set back further into the case.

    SPEER ammunition is usually highly resistant to bullet set back.

    It LOOKS to me like your shorter cartridges are only shorter because you just made the "HOLLOW" points lots less hollow.
    You collapsed those bullet noses.

    But, I am not looking at them directly and I can only tell so much from your photos and on my laptop.

  15. #15
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    The only thing I would add is that I keep a 'sharpie' marker in my cleaning kit. When I go to do the weekly/bi-weekly cleaning of my daily carries, I mark the round that was in the chamber and rotate it to the bottom of the mag. When the entire magazine has all black stripes on all the rounds, they come out of the EDC and go into the 'range ammo' box.

    Basically, my EDC always has a fresh round in the chamber, and the range ammo has only been chambered twice at most when it is fired.
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