Worried about HST

This is a discussion on Worried about HST within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dyvegas Yes, again I am aware that there is nothing illegal about owning it. I am worried about the legal ramifications of ...

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Thread: Worried about HST

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyvegas View Post
    Yes, again I am aware that there is nothing illegal about owning it. I am worried about the legal ramifications of using it instead of civilian sold, local law enforcement carried Speer Gold Dots. I know there is no way a District Attorney is going to come after me for carrying Gold Dots. Just scares me a little bit with Federal HST or the Winchester Ranger Ts. I also know that this isn't a legal forum, but just wanted to know if anyone else knew more than myself or had some experience on the matter or could direct me to somewhere with more information. Thanks.
    In the vast majority of the cases the only difference between ammo marked LE or LE Only and ammo not so marked is the quantity of the ammo in the box. LE-marked ammo is generally sold in 50-round boxes and the same stuff for the "civilian" market is packaged in 20-round boxes.

    My standard carry ammo is either .40S&W HSTs or Winchester PDX-1 (Black Talons without the black coating).

    I'm more concerned that any specific ammo is 100 percent reliable with acceptable accuracy in my particular firearm(s) that what some prosecutor might or might not think.

    FWIW, there are probably more LEOs carrying Gold Dots than HST or Ranger-T.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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  3. #17
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    No worries on HST's or any other LE AMMO.

    It may very well be that it's more defensible in court than using a non LE Ammo.

    It's the unscrupulous prosecutors who try to make a big issue as to the type of ammo a person uses. Should one try that red herring issue on you, you have an excellent defense in saying you use the same ammunition used by the local law enforcement officers. If it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for any civilian.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #18
    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    Welcome from Henderson. I use HST in my Beretta 9mm and love it. Hope I never have to use it, but it is really good defense ammo.

  5. #19
    Member Array Shotdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hihosilver View Post
    I also worry about HST, Because its GETTING SO HARD TO GET THESE DAYS!!
    I was thinking the same thing. I'm down to my last two boxes.

    OP, Don't worry about the legal ramifications. Worry about protecting yourself. You have very good ammo.

    G19, G23, P2000 (9mm), LMT Defender 2000 (SOPMOD), Colt LE6920, Ruger 10/22

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyvegas View Post
    This is my first thread here on Defensive Carry, so I thank you in advance for showing me respect as a new ccw permit holder with questions.

    I recently became a licensed CCW permit holder in Las Vegas, NV. I am trying to fill my head with much info about carrying a weapon and familiarizing myself with all applicable laws pertaining to such.

    My question is do you feel it is a good and reasonable idea to use LE Only ammo such as Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T for concealed carry or for home defense? I do own 2 boxes of Federal HST .180gr 40 S&W, but am worried about the legal ramifications if god forbid I ever had to use it. You know, explaining why I felt I needed to use LE ammo that Federal won't sell directly to civilians such as myself. I am also aware that it is just Federals policy not a law to do such. The Las Vegas Police Department carries Speer Gold Dots from what I understand, which seems to be a great round also. But, I heard such great things about Federal HST I couldn't help but get a few boxes, but am now a little scared to carry it. Thoughts?
    Exactly what "legal ramifications" do you think there will be? If the ammunition is legal, if the shoot meets all criteria for your state's use of force laws...what do you think you could be charged with?

    Keep in mind--more than a few respected instructors recommend carrying the same ammuntion as your local PD does...
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Exactly what "legal ramifications" do you think there will be? If the ammunition is legal, if the shoot meets all criteria for your state's use of force laws...what do you think you could be charged with?
    I understood his concern. It wasn't a concern of the legality of the ammunition so much as the legality of using ammunition that was marked as "LEO Use Only". For some that may translate as "Not for Civilian Use".
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    I understood his concern. It wasn't a concern of the legality of the ammunition so much as the legality of using ammunition that was marked as "LEO Use Only". For some that may translate as "Not for Civilian Use".
    Name one state that has such a law.

    (note that NJ prohibits all JHP's for carry, so "LEO ammo" really isn't applicable)
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Name one state that has such a law.

    (note that NJ prohibits all JHP's for carry, so "LEO ammo" really isn't applicable)
    Don't know of any law anywhere and thus is why we all supported the carry of LEO ammo as good to go. However, the OP was concerned with this issue.

    I was only saying I understood why he was concerned initially.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    No problems using this stuff. As long as it's legal ammo in your state and your gun likes it then rock on!

  11. #25
    Member Array dyvegas's Avatar
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    Alright alright, you guys have convinced me, the HSTs are good to go. Again, yes we are all aware there is no law against using "LE Only" ammo. The biggest concern to us all is that at some point we will have to face a District Attorney or worse a jury of our peers and explain the circumstances surrounding having to defend ourselves with the use of deadly force. And in that defense, I do not want the jury to get sidetracked or misled by some attorney saying I was reckless and obtained ammo that isn't sold directly to civilians and that I knew it was somehow "super ammo" and I somehow went beyond trying to defend myself by obtaining it. And blah blah blah.

    But as is, after reading the comments, I feel secure in carrying them. I'll stop living in the WHAT IFs.

    The main overall idea is that, I just want quality ammo that will save my life if need be. And HSTs seem to be at or near the top of the list.

  12. #26
    Member Array Shotdown's Avatar
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    If you want Speer GDs, I would trade you a box but they are the black LE boxes.

    G19, G23, P2000 (9mm), LMT Defender 2000 (SOPMOD), Colt LE6920, Ruger 10/22

  13. #27
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    I have a couple of cases of Federal 40 155 gr HST. Got from ammoman at good price a couple of years ago. Some came with brass cases and some with nickel. The ones with nickel cases are marked LEO, but not the ones with brass cases.

    I don't know about HST, but in some brands the manufacturer wants to sell the civilian a 20 round box of the same ammo for almost the same price as a 50 round box for LEO use.

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