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Some .38 Special Velocity Tests

25K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  Stevew 
#1 ·
Years ago I conducted a fairly extensive "chronographic survey" of the .38 Special, testing both a selection of handloads and factory loads. The results were recorded in a personal handloading manual. In referring back to the notes I found that the testing began on July 1, 1980.

I was recently digging through my stuff and found a couple of boxes of factory +P ammo from the era along with a box of heavy bullet handloads from the actual tests. I have additional boxes of my favorite .38 Special self defense loads on hand, along with a couple of boxes of the potent Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWC-HP load that I've been threatening to test, so determined to revisit the .38 Special. Here's the portion of the test that primarily involved the factory loads. It may take some time to test some additional handloads that are rolling around in my head and all might not find them interesting.

Have I mentioned that the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain load is potent? Whoa! No need to ever attempt to build nuclear powered handloads with Buffalo Bore available.

This test is conducted in a very "scientific" manner. Since I'm not interested in incrementally sawing off my longest .38 Special revolver's barrel inch by inch, different revolvers were used for each barrel length recorded. This introduces a large variable. Also, since I didn't want to broil in the sun all afternoon, I appropriated the club's rifle range so as to sit in the shade and use a bench rest as a table. The rifle range faces west so has a long awning projection to help keep the sun out of shooters' eyes in the afternoon. This awning is of limited benefit but required that the screens to be set up 9 feet from the muzzles of the revolvers (well 8 feet, 3 5/8 inches from that long-snouted Model 14). We had a "cool spell" last week when the test was conducted and the afternoon high was 96F.

The chronograph used is the same Oehler Model 12 used 30 years ago.

List of Smith & Wesson revolvers used for these tests. All were chambered for the .38 Special except for the 6-inch gun which is a .357 Magnum.

Model 10: 2-inch
Model 10: Heavy Barrel: 4-inch
Military & Police: 5-inch
Model 27: .357 Magnum: 6-inch
Model 14: 8 3/8-inch

Except as noted, 10-shot strings were recorded. In some cases there was not enough ammo to provide for 50 rounds for each of the five revolvers. Muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, extreme spread, and standard deviation were examined (well, muzzle less 9 feet). Revolvers were used with barrel lengths of: 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 3/8 inches.

Smith & Wesson officially proscribes using any of their revolvers made prior to 1958 with +P ammunition. The 5-inch gun was a real oldie so was not used with some of the ammunition on hand however it was tested with some of the +P ammunition. It handled 30 rounds of Remington and Winchester +P 158 grain ammunition with aplomb.

I still have 2 of the revolvers (the 4-inch and the 8 3/8-inch) which were used in July 1980 test and pressed them into service again. I also retested the boxes of factory loads and the handload which were tested at that time. These were: Winchester +P 158 grain SWC-HP, Super Vel 110 grain JHC, and a handload consisting of 9.5 grains of 2400 topped by a 200 grain Remington lead round nose bullet. The Super Vel is a partial box left from the last test 30 years ago. The Winchester +P is of that era. The handload with the 200 grain bullet was a part of the batch I loaded at the time of the first test in 1980.

Each barrel length will be featured in a separate post

Factory ammunition tested:
Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose
PMC El Dorado Starfire +P 125 grain JHP (apparently discontinued?)
Remington target 148 grain lead hollow based wadcutter
Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (two different boxes)
Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC
Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP
Super Vel +P 110 grain JHP
Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

Handloads:
158 grain lead round nose, 3.8 grains of Bullseye
200 grain Remington lead round nose, 9.5 grains 2400*

*Maximum load as published in older Lyman manual. Don't try it without working up carefully.



The +P line-up. Especially note the two different Winchester Western boxes of ammo tested. How old do y'all think that white box is? I just uncovered it in some stuff I was going through while getting the chronograph screens. It was a full unopened box. I'm remembering it as being from the late 1970s/early 1980s. It is marked $12.00.


Did I mention that Buffalo Bore .38 Special +P ammunition is red hot?

From their site:
S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)
 
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2
#2 ·
2-inch barrel

Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye

MV 718 fps
ME 181 ft./lbs.
ES 32
SD 12

Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose

MV 803 fps
ME 186 ft./lbs.
ES 34
SD 14

PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds tested

MV 871 fps
ME 210 ft./lbs
ES 28
SD 14

Remington 148 grain hollow based wadcutter

MV 707 fps
ME 164 ft./lbs.
ES 14
SD 6

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in gray box)

MV 808 fps
ME 229 ft./lbs.
ES 28
SD 8

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in older white box)

MV 843 fps
ME 249 ft./lbs
ES 67
SD 24

Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC

MV 875 FPS
ME 273 ft./lbs.
ES 61
SD 23

Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP

MV 1063 fps
ME 397 ft./lbs.
ES 56
SD 24

SuperVel +P 110 grain JHP

MV 981 fps
ME 216 ft./lbs.
ES 48
SD 28

Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

MV 747 fps
ME 195 ft./lbs.
ES 25
SD 11
 
#3 · (Edited)
4-inch barrel

Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye

MV 771 fps
ME 209 ft./lbs.
ES 59
SD 24

Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose

MV 850 fps
ME 208 ft./lbs.
ES 62
SD 24

PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds tested

MV 935 fps
ME 243 ft./lbs
ES 142
SD 35

Remington 148 grain hollow based wadcutter

MV 729 fps
ME 175 ft./lbs.
ES 35
SD 12

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in gray box)

MV 905 fps
ME 287 ft./lbs.
ES 92
SD 37

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in older white box)

MV 943 fps
ME 312 ft./lbs
ES 20
SD 8

Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC

MV 942 FPS
ME 311 ft./lbs.
ES 66
SD 30

Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP

MV 1145 fps
ME 460 ft./lbs.
ES 36
SD 14

SuperVel +P 110 grain JHP

MV 1195 fps
ME 349 ft./lbs.
ES 55
SD 22

Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

MV 785 fps
ME 216 ft./lbs.
ES 44
SD 16
 
#4 ·
5-inch barrel

Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye

MV 804 fps
ME 227 ft./lbs.
ES 51
SD 20

Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose

MV 888 fps
ME 228 ft./lbs.
ES 32
SD 9

Remington 148 grain hollow based wadcutter

MV 727 fps
ME 174 ft./lbs.
ES 20
SD 7

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in gray box)

MV 922 fps
ME 298 ft./lbs.
ES 69
SC 26

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in older white box)

MV 949 fps
ME 316 ft./lbs
ES 72
SD 32

Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC

MV 964 FPS
ME 326 ft./lbs.
ES 72
SD 32

Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

MV 778 fps
ME 212 ft./lbs.
ES 36
SD 13
 
#5 ·
6-inch barrel

Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye

MV 775 fps
ME 210 ft./lbs.
ES 27
SD 12

Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose

MV 892 fps
ME 230 ft./lbs.
ES 56
SD 24

PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds tested

MV 961 fps
ME 256 ft./lbs
ES 63
SD 30

Remington 148 grain hollow based wadcutter

MV 740 fps
ME 180 ft./lbs.
ES 31
SD 7

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in gray box)

MV 926 fps
ME 301 ft./lbs.
ES 78
SD 30

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in older white box)

MV 960 fps
ME 323 ft./lbs
ES 35
SD 16

Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC

MV 971 FPS
ME 331 ft./lbs.
ES 61
SD 23

Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP

MV 1185 fps
ME 498 ft./lbs.
ES 41
SD 18

SuperVel +P 110 grain JHP

MV 1248 fps
ME 380 ft./lbs.
ES 79
SD 45

Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

MV 798 fps
ME 223 ft./lbs.
ES 63
SD 34
 
#6 ·
8 3/8-inch barrel

Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye

MV 884 fps
ME 274 ft./lbs.
ES 31
SD 15

Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose

MV 1039 fps
ME 311 ft./lbs.
ES 115
SD 54

PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds tested

MV 1065 fps
ME 315 ft./lbs
ES 65
SD 47

Remington 148 grain hollow based wadcutter

MV 814 fps
ME 218 ft./lbs.
ES 33
SD 14

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in gray box)

MV 1027 fps
ME 370 ft./lbs.
ES 54
SD 24

Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP (in older white box)

MV 1037 fps
ME 388 ft./lbs
ES 42
SD 17

Remington +P 158 grain lead SWC

MV 1099 FPS
ME 424 ft./lbs.
ES 57
SD 24

Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP

MV 1286 fps
ME 580 ft./lbs.
ES 28
SD 13

SuperVel +P 110 grain JHP

MV 1301 fps
ME 414 ft./lbs.
ES 89
SD 37

Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ flat point

MV 747 fps
ME 195 ft./lbs.
ES 25
SD 11
 
#7 ·
There you have it. My "learned paper" on the results of the tests conducted on Tuesday of last week. My elbows have almost healed over. Some observations:

Lots of eye-opening stuff here. First up for consideration is the "magic ammo," Buffalo Bore's +P 158 load. I cannot see how they do it! Empty cases just dribble out of cylinders. Primers don't look like they've had a bad case of the gas. Handily beats any wild handloading creation I've ever concocted. Probably exceeds the old .38-44 high-velocity load. Recoil is heavy but not really as bad as one would expect. Buffalo Bore caused even the long 8 3/8-inch Model 14 to torque a bit when fired. I used a J-Frame Smith & Wesson Model 36 Chief's Special for the 2-inch portion of the test 30 years ago and it was a bear to shoot with various heavy loads. The 2-inch Model 10 I used Tuesday was much more manageable; an old softy by comparison. I was glad to have it along to use for testing this stuff. It is unimaginable that a 2-inch .38 snub can yield 400 ft. /lbs of energy with any load and it just gets better and better with longer barrels: 460 ft/lbs. from a 4-inch, 500 ft/lbs. from a 6-inch, and fully 580 ft/lbs. from an 8 3/8-inch! Velocities stayed pretty tight and didn't go all over the place.

SuperVel is still hot stuff. It also exhibited the flattest primers of the day. Velocity performance wasn't very tight overall and there was a lot of partially burnt powder crumbs getting all over everything each time I extracted a cylinder-full of cases and put them back in the box. Recoil paled in comparison with both the Buffalo Bore and the 200 grain handload that immediately preceded it on each revolver test.

I don't take light 110-125 grain bullets seriously enough in the .38 Special. I've not done a lot of testing with them. The PMC stuff was several years old and is now discontinued I believe. This performed about typical for the breed in my view. It offers neither the bullet weight nor the velocity to become a meaningful choice for the .38 Special. I ought to obtain some of the latest and greatest ammo offerings in the 110-125 grain weight category of +P to test. I hate to invest the money in the ammo just to burn it up and figure the newer offerings still won't exactly "set the woods on fire." I'm sure expansion characteristics are improved but I'll still take my chances with old technology of heavy, sharp shouldered lead semi-wadcutter bullets.

I had picked up a fresh box of Remington 148 grain target ammunition from the local Higginbotham's a few weeks ago just for this test. It turned in a nice performance. It seemed consistent through each revolver used.

Look at the interplay between the 4, 5, and 6 inch barrels. The Remington 148 grain load and the Sellier & Bellot 158 grain FMJ load gave more velocity from the 4-inch than the 5-inch. The 5-inch beat the 6-inch with the Bullseye fueled handload and came close to catching the 6-inch with the 2 different Winchester +P 158 grain loads and the Remington +P 158 grain load.

The .38 Special "walks and talks" when fired through the long-nosed 8 3/8-inch barrel. Now if only there was some way to conceal all that length of artillery.

SuperVel, Starfire, and the cheapo Independence brands all seemed more prone to wild velocity swings. For that matter the Winchester +P 158 grain loads threw a bullet that was "out there" on occasion, especially the ammunition in the gray box. Remington +P 158 grain was only fair. Perhaps these performance loads can't be expected to shoot like target ammo. Perhaps the guy running this test doesn't know what he's talking about. I've always considered any load that stayed under 50 fps spread to be good.
 
#8 ·
Whoops, forgot the data for the 200 grain Remington lead round nose load.


In July of 1980 this load produced the following performance.

4-inch barrel

MV 842 fps
ME 313 ft./lbs.
ES 38

8 3/8-inch barrel

MV 922 fps
ME 382 ft./lbs.

Some of these same loads fired on Tuesday. Only 6 rounds were fired in each barrel length.

2-inch barrel

MV 835
ME 309
ES 48
SD 18

4-inch barrel

MV 860 fps
ME 328 ft./lbs.
ES 59
SD 19

6-inch barrel

MV 888
ME 350
ES 41
SD 14

8 3/8-inch barrel

MV 953 fps
ME 403
ES 37
SD 10

They were a little faster than before but weren't much different really. Recoil was more noticeable than I remembered. I fired them after the Buffalo Bore and before the SuperVel and they felt a lot like the Buffalo Bore.
 
#11 ·
It is a worthwhile choice that is difficult to duplicate by judicious handloading. I'm ordering some more. I just gotta know how the Smith & Wesson Model 642 reacts to being fired with it. Violently I would expect.
 
#10 ·
In the 1980 test the Winchester +P 158 grain lead SWC-HP gave this performance.

2 inch barrel:

MV 830fps
ME 242 ft./lbs.

4-inch barrel:

MV 962 fps
ME 325 ft./lbs.

8 3/8-inch barrel

MV 1051 fps
ME 388 ft./lbs.


The 1980 test of the Super Vel.

4-inch barrel:

MV 1237 fps
ME 376 ft./lbs.

8 3/8-inch barrel:

MV 1319 fps
ME 425 ft./lbs.
 
#13 ·
Bryan,
Superb report, highly useful! I think this should become a "sticky." A fabulous resource on a wide variety of common (and some uncommon) .38 SPL ammo in a wide variety of barrel lengths.

Does anybody have pressure-test data on Buffalo Bore ammo? Has anybody figured out how they get the proverbial quart into a pint pot? I presume he does what he says he's doing, because there seems to be no groundswell of problems being reported; if anything, everybody agrees that his loads are as hot as advertised.

BB ammo is too expensive for it to beat your gun to death with heavy recoil, because you can't afford to buy enough of it. So the only remaining issue is pressure. No reports of KABOOMs, though. How does he, and he alone, obtain .38-44+ ballistics without paying a price, so to speak? Heck, he uses bullets made by other companies, and ditto for brass. That leaves primers and powder as variables.

Is BB ammo evidence that there is, in fact, a "free lunch," ballistically speaking?
 
#16 ·
Hello bmcgilvray and a very big thank you for the very in depth and detailed range report. I've always wondered what the ballistics of some of those loads would be when shot out of a real gun with a 4" barrel. How close to POA did those BB loads, and the 200gr load shoot for you when shot out of your M10? I second the motion that this should become a sticky.
 
#17 ·
Hey, good to see you 336A!

I didn't shoot the loads for accuracy but the 158 grain and 200 grain bullets were all striking swinging disc target I had set up at 25 yards. I was using the center 5 1/2-inch disc as an aiming reference and shooting from a rest.

I'm sure that some of the lighter bullets went beneath the disc but they weren't far off. I could aim at the bottom of the iron stem holding the disc and strike the disc with the lightweights.

I have to be careful with my ancient chronograph and its components. Having an aiming point avoids bullet damage from a low shot. Oehler hasn't built the Model 12 in years and replacement parts are sure to be non-existent. I ordered extra "sky screens" once after I shot one screen with a .22 short of all things and a friend, who had borrowed the chronograph, shot one with a .45 ACP. I still have 3 screens. When they are gone that's all for the chronograph and I'd have to get another.

The 200 grain .38 Special load will flip a disc over twice on my target stand. Only one other experimental load using 158 grain bullets and a heavy charge of powder will cause the discs to flip twice. Regular +P 158 grain ammunition will cause the discs to flip once.

The only 9mm load that will cause the discs to flip completely over one time is the 147 grain Ranger (old Black Talon) load. All other 9mm loads will only start the discs to swinging. This really doesn't prove anything regarding relative effectiveness of handgun cartridges but is interesting.

The .45 ACP will cause the discs to pinwheel merrily.
 
#25 ·
Hey, good to see you 336A!

I didn't shoot the loads for accuracy but the 158 grain and 200 grain bullets were all striking swinging disc target I had set up at 25 yards. I was using the center 5 1/2-inch disc as an aiming reference and shooting from a rest.

I'm sure that some of the lighter bullets went beneath the disc but they weren't far off. I could aim at the bottom of the iron stem holding the disc and strike the disc with the lightweights.

I have to be careful with my ancient chronograph and its components. Having an aiming point avoids bullet damage from a low shot. Oehler hasn't built the Model 12 in years and replacement parts are sure to be non-existent. I ordered extra "sky screens" once after I shot one screen with a .22 short of all things and a friend, who had borrowed the chronograph, shot one with a .45 ACP. I still have 3 screens. When they are gone that's all for the chronograph and I'd have to get another.

The 200 grain .38 Special load will flip a disc over twice on my target stand
. Only one other experimental load using 158 grain bullets and a heavy charge of powder will cause the discs to flip twice. Regular +P 158 grain ammunition will cause the discs to flip once.

The only 9mm load that will cause the discs to flip completely over one time is the 147 grain Ranger (old Black Talon) load. All other 9mm loads will only start the discs to swinging. This really doesn't prove anything regarding relative effectiveness of handgun cartridges but is interesting.

The .45 ACP will cause the discs to pinwheel merrily.
As a lover of the 38 special, I find the bolded text quite interesting. This would tend to imply that the kinetic energy delivered by the 38 special and the heavier bullets exceeds the 9mm.
 
#20 ·
Hi Keltyke;

All it takes is money.

I'm only mildly interested in the Corbon load but haven't purchased any to test yet. I'd be pretty interested in trying the Speer Short Barrel load, especially out of longer barrels, hah, just for fun. I'd like to see if it really offers any special advantage in short barrels that other loads don't possess.

No, some isn't available. The Winchester +P158 grain load was tested both in current guise and from a lot manufactured years ago. This was just to observe any change in performance. The Remington 158 grain load is current as well.

The Super Vel ammunition has attained almost mythical status though it has been out of production for many years. I had a couple of full boxes and a partial box so thought to run it over the chronograph screens.

Buffalo Bore is current and has generated a lot of interest on forums.

I'm not too keen on +P .38 Special loads with light weight bullets so concentrated on loadings with 158 grain bullets. Perhaps I can run onto some deals on some popular light weight +P ammunition to test in an upcoming installment of .38 Special tests.
 
#23 ·
Hmmmph...they're makin' fun of my old ammunition and now my antiquated equipment.

Hah, everything I have around here is old.
 
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#26 ·
Very good documentation of testing. I have not tested nor tried the BB. I am curious about how well it performs in the accuracy department. Being the deviation was very low, I would assume you should be able to get fairly good groups. I sure would like to see what BB uses to meter the powder.
 
#27 ·
Thanks! I've bookmarked this for future use. I shoot standard .38 up to .357 in my J-frame, but I use the Buffalo Bore when I load it up for SD. A bit less punch than a full .357, but impressive performance for a 2" barrel! And I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end...
 
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