Specialty gadgety pistol ammo

This is a discussion on Specialty gadgety pistol ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Shotptrdj I'm new to this thread, and I've recently joined a bunch of forums in my effort to reach out to anyone ...

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Thread: Specialty gadgety pistol ammo

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotptrdj View Post
    I'm new to this thread, and I've recently joined a bunch of forums in my effort to reach out to anyone who is interested in what I am interested in: special-purpose gadgety pistol ammo. The weird stuff with odd tips; exploders, multiball, darts, cutters, slicer, dicers, expanders, plastics & teflon. I have an extensive history in collecting & researching and a large collection. I'm with the International Ammunition Association (IAA), and I have written a book on the topic of pistol-caliber armor piercing ammo which is my main point of collecting. A couple years ago I built up my collection by purchasing a collection from a former forum member here named "Al William" (an interesting guy). Below are pics of the stuff I collect; a reference sheet I made for pistol-caliber AP ammo, a box of mixed caliber specialty ammo, and a box of 9mm specialty ammo. Please ask questions or let me know if you are interested in collecting this stuff as well. Some of these oddball cartridges are kind of junky as far as defensive carry goes, but some are amazing / restricted. It's fun stuff:










    KTW Teflon, American Ballistics, National Cartridge, Alia armor piercing, Omnishock, Geco Metal piercing, Remingotn Hi-way master, Peters Highway patrol, SIB armor piercing, Arcane 9mm, VBR ammo, SCMITR, GEA Cyclone, 7.62x25 API, ALPHA 9mm, CBAP 9mm, ANSB, Libra Snail, M39/B, 6.5x25 CBJ, PPS MSC, 224 VOB, 223 timbs, Magsafe, Beehive, armscor strike 3, equalloy, hydrashok, village metalworks safe stop, multiball, kawser pingrabber, kawser pin grabber, velet exploder, velex exploder, FXlabs, D&D omega star, Thunderzap, powerplus duplex, EMFJ, incendiary, NGA Sentry, Glaser black, Geco BAT, etc...
    If my wife was to get into shooting, this is what her ammo box would look like!
    Hiram25
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  3. #17
    New Member Array Shotptrdj's Avatar
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    CCWflaruger - I'm not with any agency or department, but I write at length about the state-to-state legalities on pistol-caliber AP ammo.

    Sentioch - There are no depleted uranium pistol rds, but there is a rare .308 rifle rd. It's called a "D.U.D.S." cartridge, made by Pacific Technica in the 70's or 80's as far as I remember. DUDS stands for Depleted Uranium Discarding Sabot, and the rd looked just like a segmented black plastic sabot with a depleted uranium penetrator core. One just sold in the Engel's collectibles auction for $150.00, and I saw one sell at the St Louis cartridge show for that same price. The incendiary rds available for pistol cartridges are mostly after-market "gun-show loads" with blue tips, but Norhern Arizona Munitions did load a skyburst tracer that was neat. It was a fused tracer/exploder that would explode after a fixed distance, or when it impacted a target, whichever came first. Those have purple tips. My favorite cartridge is the Cobra Gun co "High safety ammunition" which has multiple steel darts packed into a 9mm projectile and capped with a rubber matrix. The darts would burst into a target upon impact and could penetrate Kevlar with ease. The headstamp is IMI, but these are British, not Israeli:


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    Holy!

    And that pic is like crayola for guys.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    KTW made an AP in .25acp ?!?!?
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  7. #21
    New Member Array Shotptrdj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    KTW made an AP in .25acp ?!?!?
    Yeah! and not only that, they made around 100 experimental rds of ".22 Pokey", which is roughly the same thing as the .22 Epperson Cricket for you wildcatters out there. It was a necked-down .25acp with a Teflon-coated .22 bullet. The original owner / designer Paul Kopsch did them up to try in his wife's custom pistol which was chambered in that caliber (they had a large collection of oddball pistols) - R.I.P. I have a .22 Pokey, along with a few other experimental loads with non Teflon-coated bullets, and a super-rare .22 Pokey blank that he only did around 10 of. Here is the Pokey:



    And here is another .25acp "armor piercing" cartridge. The "MSC" or Maximum sub-caliber by Personal Protection Systems (P.P.S.). Hi-Vel originally loaded these with a brass hollow projectile that the BATF deemed to be armor piercing (they later switched to copper projectiles) even though that is ridiculous, never the less it is on the BATF's list of described pistol AP cartridges:


    And here's a box of KTW .25acp:

  8. #22
    Member Array Pyro07's Avatar
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    very interesting thread those strangely shaped rounds in the first pic are interesting i looked em up and very interesting concept behind them

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I don't see any "nuclear tipped hand of god" in there
    Don't you mean hollowpoints? Wait, that's the media that made that mistake. Sorry, carry on.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I used to have a few of the infamous KTW Ap loads in 9mm and I've even had a few of the "Arcane" loads. I regularly load RBCD and MAGSAFE in my EDC guns, which I know a lot of folks around here don't like, but it's still my choice. I also have several hundred rounds of .30-06 APIT (Armor Piercing Incendiary Tracer) ammo which is fully legal while the same loads in .308 are not. Go figure...
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #25
    New Member Array Shotptrdj's Avatar
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    EXsoldier - If you have 30-06 in APIT, then they must be aftermarket loads - they were no original USGI loads in that configuration, but there were API with the silver tip. FN of Belgium as well as USGI surplus is out there (expensive collectible stuff now) for a price. As far as loaded .308 API or AP cartridges, that stuff is just illegal to import or manufacture, or illegal for a licensed dealer to sell to civilians as of 1994. You & I can still own it if we find it for sale. A quick FYI for everybody - most of the so-called "API" .308 that you find on Gunbroker or other auction sites these days is actually .310 diameter Russian API junk from 7.62x54r that has been pulled & resized (or sometimes not fully resized), and loaded into once-fired brass. I wouldn't shoot it. Original USGI loads in .308 are incredibly rare, and the best stuff you can get is usually pulled 30-06 API projectiles that have been reloaded into .308 brass, or you can pull & reload yourself for best peace of mind.

  12. #26
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    Cool Weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shotptrdj View Post
    EXsoldier - If you have 30-06 in APIT, then they must be aftermarket loads - they were no original USGI loads in that configuration, but there were API with the silver tip. FN of Belgium as well as USGI surplus is out there (expensive collectible stuff now) for a price.
    I have .30-06 that has the black tip (AP) and I have some that has the Silver Tip (API) and I have a very few with the RED tip with a black and silver band below. Which I think was APIT. Some time ago, I tested the stuff on some partially filled (with regular gas) GI "Jerry" Cans (old trashy stuff) and the results were spectacular to say the least! The cans seemed to have just the right mix of fuel fumes to air and ....WOW! To say the least I shot them in an old strip mine out of state and from a good distance away. Safety all the way. Wish I'd thought to get it on film.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #27
    New Member Array Shotptrdj's Avatar
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    That's cool about shooting the mostly empty can. I've seen on shows where they try to recreate a James Bond thing and shoot a barrel of gas or whatever, but they always make the mistake of shooting a full tank, which will usually do nothing. You have to shoot the top of the tank where the vapor is, and the tiny amount of incendiary material will do its thing. The best one in movies is where a guy shoots a propane tank with a pistol and it explodes. I work at an RV dealership and I've tried shooting several LP tanks that were old out-of-spec tanks that had some LP in them. It was always a failure, even with .50BMG API, because the gas would blow out the hole so fast and under such pressure that it would blow out any flame. In South Africa back in the 80's a guy working for PMP actually made 2 variants of a 9mm API called the "Pricker" and the "Ballpen" which were designed for use against the vehicles to blow their gas tanks. It never went into full production, but they made allot of it for testing. Expensive little cartridges:

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  14. #28
    Member Array redfish443's Avatar
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    Pretty amazing what guys can do with time, money and lots of ideas! Very nice collection, thanks for posting that one!

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotptrdj View Post
    CCWflaruger - I'm not with any agency or department, but I write at length about the state-to-state legalities on pistol-caliber AP ammo.

    Sentioch - There are no depleted uranium pistol rds, but there is a rare .308 rifle rd. It's called a "D.U.D.S." cartridge, made by Pacific Technica in the 70's or 80's as far as I remember. DUDS stands for Depleted Uranium Discarding Sabot, and the rd looked just like a segmented black plastic sabot with a depleted uranium penetrator core. One just sold in the Engel's collectibles auction for $150.00, and I saw one sell at the St Louis cartridge show for that same price. The incendiary rds available for pistol cartridges are mostly after-market "gun-show loads" with blue tips, but Norhern Arizona Munitions did load a skyburst tracer that was neat. It was a fused tracer/exploder that would explode after a fixed distance, or when it impacted a target, whichever came first. Those have purple tips. My favorite cartridge is the Cobra Gun co "High safety ammunition" which has multiple steel darts packed into a 9mm projectile and capped with a rubber matrix. The darts would burst into a target upon impact and could penetrate Kevlar with ease. The headstamp is IMI, but these are British, not Israeli:

    Those are quite possibly the nastiest nasties I've ever seen! I'm curious, what are the legalities of owning this type of ammo? Especially the armor piercing like thses and the DUDS... I would think that even as collectors pieces, they would be taboo to some extent.
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  16. #30
    New Member Array Shotptrdj's Avatar
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    Related to the super-rare 9mm HSA multi-dart AP cartridge above: These are almost never seen, but I actually came across one on Gunbroker the other day. It was listed with a bunch of specialty cartridges, and I snatched the listing up. You can find this stuff once in a great while, just takes lots of looking:
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=192973276

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