what's best 9mm short barrel ammo.

This is a discussion on what's best 9mm short barrel ammo. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Which is better...... a Ford or a Chevy ? It's the same type of question. Pick the ammo you like and think will do the ...

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Thread: what's best 9mm short barrel ammo.

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Which is better...... a Ford or a Chevy ? It's the same type of question. Pick the ammo you like and think will do the job. The shorter barrel will have the biggest difference at some real distance, and very little in shorter distances you'ld have in a SD situation, and it will likely not be one where you could tell the difference. Accuracy ... is more important.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Accuracy/shot placement is more important, but ammo is very important as well. I like my car (Mercedes) and would take it in most colors available, but chose silver because I could (my wife's Jag is white). Which one of those is better? Any edge is an edge and if it's available to you, take advantage of it.

    We each have our opinion, but she chose a Jag anyway, go figure!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    *EDIT - Every time I reply to something, someone beats me to it!

    I'm guessing he means Winchester's Bonded PDX1. It's a civilian available line and is set to replace the SXT line from my understanding (but that's just what i heard, nothing to back that up). It lacks the talons of the Ranger T-Series line. I'd stick with Ranger T-Series or HST in any caliber and any weight. For 9mm, I like 147 grain and understand (stated by Dr. Roberts if I remember correctly) it's the best choice for the 3.5 or 4" barrel. 124 is a fine choice as well, but 147 loses less velocity on impact where higher velocity, lighter rounds lose more on impact, part of the reason for the higher (and misunderstood) muzzle energy.
    Ranger-T bonded and PDX1 are the same.

  5. #34
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    I always use the same ammo, Cor-Bon DPX for SD.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Which is better...... a Ford or a Chevy ? It's the same type of question. Pick the ammo you like and think will do the job. The shorter barrel will have the biggest difference at some real distance, and very little in shorter distances you'ld have in a SD situation, and it will likely not be one where you could tell the difference. Accuracy ... is more important.
    True, I have found that Speer Gold Dot 115 grain standard pressure hollowpoints work well in my Kahr CW9. The recoil is mild compared to the micro .380s like the Kel Tec P3AT and the Ruger LCP both of which I have owned at one time or another, and yet the Speer load is powerful enough to get the job done if you do your part in accurately placing them in the BG.
    God bless our troops!

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemarlin View Post
    I bet that's a typo and he means Winchester PDX1.
    I'll go along with that. The Win PDX is getting a good reputation.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    Ranger-T bonded and PDX1 are the same.
    I don't think they're the same, I think it would be closer to Ranger SXT bonded (if there is one), not T-Series. Since Ranger T is LEO and SXT and PDX1 is civilian. Either way, go for Ranger T-Series. 50 round boxes compared to PDX1 20 round boxes for a premium. Ranger T-Series is a step above SXT and Winchester says PDX1 is similar to SXT and is it's replacement. Ranger T-Series and Ranger SXT are two different things in very similar packaging.

    *EDIT - Just to clarify, I am in the "use what runs reliably and you shoot best" camp, but it's also good to know which is the best of the best out there and if the top few rounds run as good as anything else, then I'd strongly suggest picking the ammo with the best performance.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; July 26th, 2010 at 01:16 PM.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #38
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    Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger

    Part Number Cartridge
    Bullet Wt. Bullet Type Box Count Bullet Coefficient
    23619 9mm Luger 147 GDHP 20 0.164

    Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
    Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards
    Velocity985 50y 932 100y 887 Energymuzzle317 50y 284 100y 257
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger

    Part Number Cartridge
    Bullet Wt. Bullet Type Box Count Bullet Coefficient
    23618 9mm Luger 124 GDHP 20 0.134

    Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
    Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards
    1150 50y 1039 100y 963 Energy muzzle364 50y 297 100y 255


    Clearly the 124 is a LITTLE better than 147 at energy at 50 and 100 yards. Yes it does matter, but, will it matter at 10 - 25 yards.? probably not.
    Shoot what works in your pistol and has been proven to reliably expand

    Site used for above info;
    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
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  10. #39
    ntg
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    There's a website called "ballistics by the inch" and it shows the decrease in velocity/energy as the barrel length decreases. Very interesting. Check it out.
    M&P Shield9; RIA 1911 Tactical 9mm;...many long guns

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntg View Post
    There's a website called "ballistics by the inch" and it shows the decrease in velocity/energy as the barrel length decreases. Very interesting. Check it out.
    That was a very good site. Thanks for sharing.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    See, I've always carried the 45's for defense and had the 9mms for the range and classes. Lately though, since I decided to keep the Sigs, I've been carrying the 229 SCT and 226's with 18+1 and 2 spare 18 round mags. Since I've never carried them much, I only really looked into 45 defensive ammo. For what I've been reading, I've read that 124 is ideal (HST, Gold Dot, Ranger T, etc.) in 4"+ barrels. Below that, it's said that higher velocities are a benefit, but from what I thought I read, higher grain weights were the best choice, but now I'm not sure.

    The better expansion and deeper penetration seem to indicate the heavier round is the better choice. I have a ton of HST 147 and one box of 50 124 grain. I'm fine with either, I just don't think +P is necessary in 4" or longer barrels.

    http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

    Velocity seems to be the "holy grail" for a lot of folks when they decide to choose their handgun ammo, and they tend to gravitate towards +P or even +P+ loads. As mentioned above, velocity is not always good or useful. This is something to keep in mind when deciding between a "fast" 127gr +P+ or 147gr load in 9mm for example. Another factor is the ability to control the follow-up shot. If you have two loads which both perform about the same, you might consider going to the slow/heavy bullet due to the fact that the slower load is more easily controlled. Consider the data from Winchester in regards to their 9mm 127gr +P+ load (1250 fps) versus the 147gr load (990 fps) in the Ranger-T line:


    Gelatin
    127gr = 12.3" penetration and 0.64" ED
    147gr = 13.9" penetration and 0.65" ED

    4-Ply Denim
    127gr = 12.5" penetration and 0.68" ED
    147gr = 14.5" penetration and 0.66" ED

    Heavy Cloth
    127gr = 12.2" penetration and 0.68" ED
    147gr = 14.0" penetration and 0.66" ED

    In a handgun, the "light and fast" philosophy is taken to extremes by exotic ammo like Extreme Shock and RBCD. Please refer to the Exotic ammo FAQ for reference.

    BARREL LENGTH plays a role in this as well. While +P loadings may not be required in most cases, they can compensate for short barrels and the resulting loss in muzzle velocity. For example: In 9mm, the 124gr Gold Dot is a good choice in barrel lengths of 4" or more. In compact guns of 3.5" or less, a higher-velocity loading would be advised. This is Dr. Roberts take on the issue:
    Actually, all our testing has traditionally been done in 4" barrels for 9 mm, .40 S&W, and 4.25" for .45 ACP, although recently most of the organizations we test for have been asking for 5" barrel data for .45 ACP. There is really no difference in performance between a 3.5" and 4" barrel in 9 mm and .40 S&W. In .45 ACP, we see a reasonably significant change in performance going from a 5" to 3.5" or less barrels. Since almost all viable pistols in 9 mm and .40 S&W use 3.5-4.5" barrels, there are no "short barrel" worries for serious end-users. Likewise, almost all .45 ACP platforms worthy of hard use use barrels greater than 4", so again, the short barrel question is moot...
    Please be aware that if you venture into guns with a barrel length of less than 3.5", you're in uncharted territory.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I don't think they're the same, I think it would be closer to Ranger SXT bonded (if there is one), not T-Series. Since Ranger T is LEO and SXT and PDX1 is civilian. Either way, go for Ranger T-Series. 50 round boxes compared to PDX1 20 round boxes for a premium. Ranger T-Series is a step above SXT and Winchester says PDX1 is similar to SXT and is it's replacement. Ranger T-Series and Ranger SXT are two different things in very similar packaging.

    *EDIT - Just to clarify, I am in the "use what runs reliably and you shoot best" camp, but it's also good to know which is the best of the best out there and if the top few rounds run as good as anything else, then I'd strongly suggest picking the ammo with the best performance.
    They are. 147gr pdx1 and 147gr ranger-t bonded use the same bullet going the same speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger

    Part Number Cartridge
    Bullet Wt. Bullet Type Box Count Bullet Coefficient
    23619 9mm Luger 147 GDHP 20 0.164

    Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
    Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards
    Velocity985 50y 932 100y 887 Energymuzzle317 50y 284 100y 257
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger

    Part Number Cartridge
    Bullet Wt. Bullet Type Box Count Bullet Coefficient
    23618 9mm Luger 124 GDHP 20 0.134

    Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
    Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards
    1150 50y 1039 100y 963 Energy muzzle364 50y 297 100y 255


    Clearly the 124 is a LITTLE better than 147 at energy at 50 and 100 yards. Yes it does matter, but, will it matter at 10 - 25 yards.? probably not.
    Shoot what works in your pistol and has been proven to reliably expand

    Site used for above info;
    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
    Ft lbs of energy might be different, but the performance in gel, which actually matters, is about the same.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    OK, so they just package it in 20 round boxes and call it new... understood.

    As for the 147 vs 124, at which point is the 147 better, or does 124 always prevail? I'm just curious at this point. I have both weight HST's here right now, so I might as well carry the better performing round and load up the spares with the other.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #44
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    OK, so they just package it in 20 round boxes and call it new... understood.

    As for the 147 vs 124, at which point is the 147 better, or does 124 always prevail? I'm just curious at this point. I have both weight HST's here right now, so I might as well carry the better performing round and load up the spares with the other.
    They both work fine with proper bullet design. You've got that taken care of, so just use em. I happen to prefer 147gr for deeper penetration and slightly improved barrier performance, but it's not like I think it'll be the difference between life and death. If you've got a good source for HSTs, just get the one you prefer in quantity and stop worrying about it.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Yeah, I actually never really worried about it, then this thread threw off what i thought I knew, but you basically just said the what I've always thought... I like the heavier weight in whatever caliber I carry... The only reason I even have the 124 at all is that I waited for about 14 months for a bigger order of 45 HST standard pressure and when I sent an email about an ETA, they mentioned they had the 124, so I asked for just one box since I already had the 147.

    I know it doesn't seem like it in the messages since attitude can't be easily be interpreted, but I'm not overly concerned about it, just curious. I have nothing else to do right now, so I'm just screwing around on the internet. Since I have both HST's in standard pressure and some Ranger T, just figured I'd be sure. I don't know how much difference 20 grains (0.052571429 ounces) can make, but I have a feeling it's not all that much. A .53 ounce 230 grain 45 being nearly twice the weight of a 124 grain bullet is obviously much heavier, relatively speaking.

    OH, and the reason i was curious at all is that I have a few Sigs in 9mm. For whatever reason when I went to sell them, I found a new love for them. I like the 226 best but since I was carrying in an OWB holster under a t-shirt, the 229 works a little better at times. With a barrel at 3.9", it got me wondering what was best. I know in my 4.5" 9mm barrels and my 4.25" - 5" 1911's, but sub 4" is a new area for me to consider carrying, though it's only .1" less than 4". So, it got me thinking about what's best for a 3.9" barrel. I'll be picking up an M&P and a Glock or two this week or next and one may be a 19, so that kept me thinking... Just curious and inquisitive. I enjoy knowing this stuff inside and out. I've spent years focusing on 1911's and 45 ammo, so it's fun playing around with something that's new to me.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; July 26th, 2010 at 11:03 PM.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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