A Word of Caution about Hornady’s Critical Defense Handgun Ammunition - by Shawn Do

This is a discussion on A Word of Caution about Hornady’s Critical Defense Handgun Ammunition - by Shawn Do within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by automatic slim So you can't depend on Hornady's .357 Magnum ammo, traveling at 1500 fps to penetrate sheet rock. Time for Hornady ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    So you can't depend on Hornady's .357 Magnum ammo, traveling at 1500 fps to penetrate sheet rock. Time for Hornady to get out of the ammo business.
    I highly doubt that it won't penetrate sheetrock, since you can penetrate that "barrier" with your fist. If anything, it possibly could fail to expand properly after penetrating. Heck, it would probably be almost darn near impossible to design a bullet that doesn't penetrate sheetrock. Even the Glazer "safety" round penetrates multiple sheetrock boards:

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

    The only barrier that I would imagine might give the CD round a hard time is angled auto windshield glass. That is not an issue that is unique to the CD round - angled glass can give many handgun bullets issues. The hardness tends to cause rounds to fragment, and the angle tends to deflect bullets down (assuming you are outside the vehicle and firing into it).
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  3. #47
    New Member Array Popsfury's Avatar
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    My take on Hornady Critical Defense. 40S&W

    I recently had the unfortunate experience of being shot in the leg with Hornady Critical Defense chambered in. 40S&W.... It blew my femur apart and almost tore off my leg.... Now THAT'S real world experience. Let me tell you firsthand... THEY WORK, PERIOD.

  4. #48
    Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
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    Im doing my part for the environment...only copper massivly hollow point warhead for me...seriously nothing lead in my carry

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsfury View Post
    I recently had the unfortunate experience of being shot in the leg with Hornady Critical Defense chambered in. 40S&W.... It blew my femur apart and almost tore off my leg.... Now THAT'S real world experience. Let me tell you firsthand... THEY WORK, PERIOD.
    Ouch. I hope you have recovered...sorry to hear about that.

  6. #50
    Member Array lyodbraun's Avatar
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    here is a good video that shows some great testing of different rounds from 9mm to .45ACP...

    Click on the pistol ammo testing...
    LE - Wound Ballistic Videos

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsfury View Post
    I recently had the unfortunate experience of being shot in the leg with Hornady Critical Defense chambered in. 40S&W.... It blew my femur apart and almost tore off my leg.... Now THAT'S real world experience. Let me tell you firsthand... THEY WORK, PERIOD.
    Sorry to hear about your leg, but we need details please.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptSmith View Post
    Im doing my part for the environment...only copper massivly hollow point warhead for me...seriously nothing lead in my carry
    Well, if we're talking SD ammo and there is no exit wound then really its only the BGs bloodstream being polluted but hes ganna be draining and not needing that anyways! Kudos for going green, er copper.
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    Today.... a .22 cal round would go thru a car door, they aren't made that well. it's not likely you'll run into a problem and the guy is driving a 1952 Mercury with a thick metal door. The stuff in doors today, other than hitting some mechanisms, are thin.

    Also, most HP's of any kind are not great thru car doors, glass, etc.... that is no surprise at all. Although FMJ's will , they are also likely to over-penetrate in other situations. So, like all cases.... you have decide which ammo will work for you the best, in the types of situations you are in where you think you are more likely to need it.

    You can be critical of any ammo out there, for one reason or another. It overdoes this, or doesn't do that. There is no magical bullet that will do it all ... in all situations.
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsfury View Post
    I recently had the unfortunate experience of being shot in the leg with Hornady Critical Defense chambered in. 40S&W.... It blew my femur apart and almost tore off my leg.... Now THAT'S real world experience. Let me tell you firsthand... THEY WORK, PERIOD.
    So was that after penetrating thru a barrier such as an interior wall or vehicle door,how about automotive glass since that was the basis for the Post,not that the round wouldn't work when engaging a soft target,but was not designed to shoot thru barriers.I'll stick with gold dots
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    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    I haven't read the whole thread, but critical duty (not defense) pretty much fixed the flaw that the critical defense had. with the harder lead that isn't bonded, but instead belted it was shown to pass all sorts of barriers and still expand and penetrate 12-16 inches

    That's what I've transferred over to.

    if you look at brassfetcher, speer (and critical duty) failed to expand when penetrating through a bone simulant (like you ended up hitting the ribs or the sternum before getting to flesh)

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    sorry folks I fail to see it, if a bullet is to expand in soft tissue how do you expect it to pass through a car door and still hold its shape, the laws of phicsics say NO. you can have your cake and eat it too. I love how they show a bullet all mushroomed out and with great expantion... yea if you shooting it into a water tank but in real life good luck finding one to look like that


  13. #57
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    sorry folks I fail to see it, if a bullet is to expand in soft tissue how do you expect it to pass through a car door and still hold its shape, the laws of phicsics say NO. you can have your cake and eat it too. I love how they show a bullet all mushroomed out and with great expantion... yea if you shooting it into a water tank but in real life good luck finding one to look like that

    Even though that's not a full expansion, that's still partial and much better than most bullets that get 0 expansion. I'm happy with that.

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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    someone will find fault in this but I read somewhere that most hollow points fail because they fill with material before hitting soft tissue (denim, a hoodie, leather) thus making them a solid object instead of a hollow point so what we see is MFG's filling the tip of the bullet to decrease this possibility assuming that upon entering the plastic tip moves or is soft enough to melt.

    One of the problems with tests are we don't know the Temperature of the bullet at the exit (gun) point and then at the entry point (BG). expansion is in part due to the heat soften the copper and lead so if you are very close to a BG the bullet may never expand.

    I know of no bullet that can hit a hard object and still hold shape much less still be affective as a hollow point, all we can assume is at that point it is a solid and hopefully continue on it path to the intended object

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    Senior Member Array bandrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsfury View Post
    I recently had the unfortunate experience of being shot in the leg with Hornady Critical Defense chambered in. 40S&W.... It blew my femur apart and almost tore off my leg.... Now THAT'S real world experience. Let me tell you firsthand... THEY WORK, PERIOD.
    Holly smokes popsfury..........You going to be ok? I am sorry for your pain and suffering. Also thanks for your input because I was not going to switch from my carry ammo which is HCD.
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    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    someone will find fault in this but I read somewhere that most hollow points fail because they fill with material before hitting soft tissue (denim, a hoodie, leather) thus making them a solid object instead of a hollow point so what we see is MFG's filling the tip of the bullet to decrease this possibility assuming that upon entering the plastic tip moves or is soft enough to melt.

    One of the problems with tests are we don't know the Temperature of the bullet at the exit (gun) point and then at the entry point (BG). expansion is in part due to the heat soften the copper and lead so if you are very close to a BG the bullet may never expand.

    I know of no bullet that can hit a hard object and still hold shape much less still be affective as a hollow point, all we can assume is at that point it is a solid and hopefully continue on it path to the intended object
    no lol. it's not so that it melts.

    they fill the tip with a polymer that upon impact gets pushed, and it has to replace that mass, so it pushes the petals out.

    imagine a baloon, squeeze both ends. what happens to the balloon? it goes to the path of least resistance.

    so instead of the hole filling up with body tissue (where it would expand the petals since it has to go somewhere) some bullet makers fill that hole with a rubber tip, so when it makes contact and gets pushed, it goes and pushes out the petals.

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