Is a defensive carry gun that's not rated for +P ammo worth pack'n?

This is a discussion on Is a defensive carry gun that's not rated for +P ammo worth pack'n? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's move past the "it's better than nothing" AND using the Cobra Patriot .45 as an example(focus on the .45 acp caliber) . The reviews ...

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Thread: Is a defensive carry gun that's not rated for +P ammo worth pack'n?

  1. #1
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    Is a defensive carry gun that's not rated for +P ammo worth pack'n?

    Let's move past the "it's better than nothing" AND using the Cobra Patriot .45 as an example(focus on the .45 acp caliber) . The reviews for this $250 peacemaker stand-up very strong for this price point except for the major limit of no +P ammo.
    Since a high percent of self defense incidents happen within 21 feet or less wouldn't a .45 gun like this be adequate enoiugh to put your life on the line?

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    Member Array joedodge's Avatar
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    i dont use +p ammo in my 9 i like the heavier 147 grain round and shoot better with it i have no problems carrying non +p ammo.

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    Standard pressure ammo has worked fine for years. IMO most +P ammo is overrated
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    I have never understod the whole +P ammo thing anyway. I would think a .45 to the chest at 15 feet would do plenty of damage with standard ammunition. I am not sure what the higher pressure and therefore velocity gets you in that situation. I think the better argument can be made for lower velocity. As to the specific gun in particular, the only thing I can think of is that if it is not rated for +P, you might question the sturdiness/longevity of the weapon. It's a $250 gun, so recognizing the limitation in price/value if budget were a big issue, I would go for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joedodge;1719228[B
    ]i dont use +p ammo in my 9[/B] i like the heavier 147 grain round and shoot better with it i have no problems carrying non +p ammo.





    ^^^^^^^^^What Joe^^^^^said^^^^^^^^^^^

    What caliber are you talking about?
    45 acp, or 45 colt or the like??? I don't think non +p ammo will let you down
























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    I don't want to get shot with any caliber gun. +P or not it still hurts.
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    All pistol rounds are anemic; there are countless "failure to stop" stories out there for ANY caliber. If +P gives you an advantage, no matter how slight, AND it is worth the trade off in price, recoil, noise, flash, wear on your gun (or whatever negatives there are), then I see no reason to poo-poo it.

    That said, I don't normally carry or shoot +P ammo, though my carry guns are certainly rated for it. I would be wary of a firearm that wasn't +P rated not because I desperately want to use that ammo, but because (as kapnketel points out) it calls into question the weapons inherent strength and durability. An overcharged round or other malfunction might be much more severe in a weapon not designed to take higher pressures, the gun will (presumably) wear out faster, etc.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Standard pressure ammo has worked fine for years. IMO most +P ammo is overrated
    I wouldn't disagree, but for short barrel and .380 it sure does add some ballistics help to the round due to the reduction in barrel lengths.
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    Helpful comments * i have never owned a gun * My 1st buy will be before the year is out or before some of our logically insane politicians vote to change the 2nd amndmnt, which ever comes 1st :>D
    Now i'll try many brands & grains * Before reading your comments i was focused on practice ammo & +P as the best options to always use
    This year at 1 outing i fired from a buddy's collection 2 .357z, a .38, a 9mm luger, and a .45 * The .45 was the best shooter as the recoil was just slightly less or about the same as the 9mm Glock * .45 was a better fit for me * I'm sure the type ammo with some played a big enough part on how the gun handled * The two .357z are similar size & wt. 1 being an older Colt Python and the 2nd a Ruger something?,but man did they both kick back * The .38 Charter Arms was a snubbie with a nice comfy rubber grip and it also kicked some compared to the .45 & 9
    Guess i'm say'n all this because it's all new to me * Seems like one's choice in ammo is as impostant piece of the puzzle as the gun selection AND ofcoarse the practice n safety issues,yadda yadda..................thnx
    Last edited by danlct; July 30th, 2010 at 01:07 PM. Reason: hit wrong key

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    Its all trade-off. Standard is just fine for most purposes. If you are using .38 go up to .357 instead of +P or just stay with .38 sp.

    If you are using 9, go to .40 or .45 instead of +P.

    If you are choosing to carry .380 knowing its limitations, then fine. You've made your choice. Otherwise go up to 9mm.

    My opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

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    Well, Hopyard, there are some that might argue that going from a 9mm to a .40 or .45 isn't going "up," but going sideways. See your first sentence - it's all a trade-off. Bigger diameter = less rounds in the same space; possibly more recoil, noise, blast, etc...

    I think the one +P that really DOES have a place is in .38SPL. With all that extra case volume, it's a no-brainer to push the powder levels up a bit now that the metallurgy can easily handle the pressures. There is a HUGE difference between .38SPL standard pressure and .357 Magnum in terms of recoil/noise/blast; most .38SPL +Ps seem to split that difference nicely - they aren't punishing to shoot, and they add a pretty good amount of "oomph" to the standard .38SPL loads.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    In the history of firearms, how many people have been killed with "non-" plus P rated ammo. Plenty.
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    Personally, I don't buy into the need for +P. Consequently, I wouldn't let that influence my purchase decisions.
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    Standard pressure loads have been doing the job since the days of the match lock. In the days before +P loads and magnums and modern hollow point designs was anyone talking about how inadequate the .45 was? During the Moro rebellion the army dragged old .45 Colts out of moth balls because the then issued .38s&w was failing to stop on a regular basis. It is not Thor's hammer by any means (no handgun cartridge is) so I wont pontificate and say it is "adequate" or anything that might be construed as a blind endorsement of it's infallibility. I will say that I think it is a respectable choice and have carried standard pressure .45 acp with full confidence that if I did my job it would do its job.
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    I am not familiar with the cobra patriot but I am with the 45, since you have indeed shot a 45 make sure you shoot the actual gin you will buy if you can. Each gun has a different feel even different models within brands and the same round can feel great out of one and not so much out of another. I can shoot pretty well a 10mm Delta Elite, but shot the 10mm in a Glock and it wasn't so good... the platform and theway it fits you can make a huge difference. Do your research and don't forget you can buy used and mabe save some bucks... as for +p ammo, it is loaded to a higher pressure thus pushing the bullet faster, it does not seem as if you gain as much in 45 as in other calibers like 9mm and personally I only shoot +p in 38 spcl because of the gain especially in a short barrel...

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