Federal Personal Defense Ammo - Your opinions please - Page 4

Federal Personal Defense Ammo - Your opinions please

This is a discussion on Federal Personal Defense Ammo - Your opinions please within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry either Cor-Bon DPX .45 185gr +P or Winchester Ranger-T .45 230gr +P in my Glock 30. My HK USP is always loaded with ...

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Thread: Federal Personal Defense Ammo - Your opinions please

  1. #46
    RKM
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    I carry either Cor-Bon DPX .45 185gr +P or Winchester Ranger-T .45 230gr +P in my Glock 30. My HK USP is always loaded with the Ranger-T's in my nightstand and my summer carry (or carry when "I don't feel like carrying") is my MK40 with Winchester PDX1 .40 165gr

    Pretty much any modern day hollow point with tests backed by the FBI, in any caliber, will get the job done. Of course, as long as you do your part.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    Shot placement is the most critical part of the equation. You do your part and the rest is up to fate.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  3. #48
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    That LEO designation is a manufactures preference and I think marketing tool. It is not law. It is in no way binding to the retailer. Ammunition To Go is a good source when it is available. Great service and decent prices.

    A simple search should locate several great threads reviewing Federal HST on this forum. I posted the below in one of them awhile back

    I have carried Golden Sabers for years and they are a good solid performing round though they do on occasion tend to separate. When Ranger T's came out the replacement for the old black talons I jumped on the band wagon and bought Rangers for my .45, 9mm and .380. Well over a thousand rounds. Than I tested it. Ranger T series performed so badly in my XD.45 compact, 9mm Cougar, XD 9mm and Bersa .380 that I ended up using a thousand rounds of it as practice ammo. Actually it was more. Pretty pricey screw up on my part. I could have gotten a new gun or two for the money I spent on range ammo. Should have gotten small quantities and tested how they performed in my guns rather than trust the hype before stocking up on it. Which I ended up doing. Researching and testing a wide variety of ammo.

    After months of trying different ammo. Federal HST by far out performed every other bullet I have seen and studied. No matter what they are shot through or into they are the most consistent performing and expanding round available. Sheet rock, heavy layers of denim, plywood or glass the .45 HST expanded to about the size of a quarter in the exact shape depicted below. Every time. Not one failure of any kind in any of my guns. I have HST in all my guns except the .380 as HST is not available for it. The .380 gets Golden Sabers.


    Here are some test results. This first set are downloadable PDF files. These test were conducted by LEO at the indicated LEO facilities. The participating ammo manufactures supplied the ammo and sponsored the tests. These files/ reports are provided by Federal from their website. Because they were done at LEO facilities by LEO with competing manufactures present I think that these test results are as unbiased accurate and objective as possible. As it turned out these results are pretty much the same as the low tech water jug and wet newspaper tests I did on my own.

    Los Angeles County - California
    Riverside - California
    Santa Clara - California
    Fresno County - California
    Kern County - California
    Sacramento County - California
    San Angelo - Texas
    Pierce County Workshop - Washington
    San Diego County Workshop - California
    Portland Police Bureau - Oregon

    The following are links to pages with comparison pics of different ammo, from a two different sites
    ballistics testing - round 1 - varied 9mm JHP's
    ballistics testing - round 2 - varied 9mm JHP's
    ballistics testing - round 3 - varied 9mm JHP's - shooting through tshirts
    ballistics testing - round 5 - comparing 9mm JHP velocities
    ballistics testing - round 6 - Federal HST 9mm vs 45 acp
    ballistics testing - round 7 - shooting through denim - 9 mm, 45 acp, and 357 magnum

    Terminal Ballistics .45 ACP
    Terminal Ballistics 9mm

    There is also a rather informative thread here with pics at Federal HST vs, Hydra-Shock pics

    Below is a pic of my rather meager example of HST compared to some other common SD ammunition


    In every one of these threads someone or two will chime in with shot placement is far more critical than ammo selection. I concur whole heartedly but I also want my well placed shot to have the most stopping performance possible. I think it is also critical that we are confidant that our SD ammo will do its job as long as I do mine.

    Remember that while these tests, like these forum discussions are informative and interesting reads, as well as helpful. In that they may narrow down the field of likely candidates for our carry ammo. Ultimately the responsibility for assuring that our SD ammo functions reliably with consistent accurate end performance is on each of us individually
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  4. #49
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    I thought I had seen Federal Personal Defense with HST bullets. That being said, a couple of points for the OP to consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    9mm ammo is 135 grains, the .40 ammo is 135 grains, and the .45 ammo is 165 grains.
    The weight of the 9mm seems to be good (I don't shoot 9mm), but the .40 and .45 seem awfully light weight. Most ppl recommend 165-180gr for .40 (some 155 diehards out there), and 200+gr (with most settling on 230) in .45. I chose 165 gr in my .40s.

    I chose Gold Dot over Federal even though they are technically the same company (Federal and Speer are both owned by ATK) and seem to be sharing designs with the later stuff. HST seems to be similar, though a little newer, to Gold Dot. Gold Dot is VERY common in law enforcement. I don't know if it's the most popular, but it is popular with agencies. I have an email from Speer that confirms that the Speer Personal Defense and the Speer Law Enforcement ammo is identical. I figure that's probably my best legal defense to my ammo selection.

    Part 23970 and 53970 are the exact same product, packaged two ways. The 20 packs are geared toward 'commercial' sales and the duty ammo toward Law Enforcement. The 50 packs are generally a better buy if you can find them.

    We are receiving numerous emails and calls about the 'out of stock' situation on our ammo and primers. If you call our Customer Service folks @ 1-800-322-2342 (Option 3) they should be able to direct you to a distributor in your area who last received the product that you are looking for. My guess is that some hoarding may be going on, as we are manufacturing product at our typical rate. Linda



    Linda Olin
    CCI/Speer Technical Services
    2299 Snake River Ave.
    Lewiston, ID 83501


    From: Tim
    Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:18 AM
    To: Experts, SpeerAmmo
    Subject: Load info

    First, 40s&w 165gr 'personal defense' ammo (23970) and 40s&w 165gr 'Law Enforcement' ammo (53970) appears to be identical other than quantity. Is this the case?

    <snip, other questions aren't relevant to this thread>

    Thank you for your time,

    Tim

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    Make sure that some of that shooting is with the rounds you plan on carrying.
    Good point I missed in my previous post.

    I always shoot at least 250 rounds of my intended SD/EDC ammo through my SD/EDC weapon before I start to carry it. To assure 100% reliability of that ammo in that specific gun.

    One of the things I really like about HST is that it has about the same point of impact and the same recoil as my practice ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I thought I had seen Federal Personal Defense with HST bullets.
    I believe that is inaccurate they are two different lines of ammo. HST is Federal's best premium ammo. In fact it is the best of any manufacture bar none IMO, see my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    The weight of the 9mm seems to be good (I don't shoot 9mm), but the .40 and .45 seem awfully light weight.
    I'm confused what ammo are you talking about? My HST are 230 grain. I am of big heavy bullet school of thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I have an email from Speer that confirms that the Speer Personal Defense and the Speer Law Enforcement ammo is identical. I figure that's probably my best legal defense to my ammo selection.
    If I ever have to defend the type of ammo I use I'd simply say HST is what the local PD use.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880
    The weight of the 9mm seems to be good (I don't shoot 9mm), but the .40 and .45 seem awfully light weight.
    I'm confused what ammo are you talking about? My HST are 230 grain. I am of big heavy bullet school of thought.
    Because I wasn't referring to your ammo. Since you're not the OP, some of these replies in this thread may not be directed at you.

    Here's the part of the OP's post I was replying to:

    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    I'm curious about what you (experts) think of Federal Premium Personal Defense ammo (Hydra-Shok JHP). ... The 9mm ammo is 135 grains, the .40 ammo is 135 grains, and the .45 ammo is 165 grains.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Because I wasn't referring to your ammo. Since you're not the OP, some of these replies in this thread may not be directed at you.
    OK that makes sense. I misread it as part of this apparent misinformation you posted stating that Federal Personal Defense being loaded with HST
    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    I thought I had seen Federal Personal Defense with HST bullets. That being said, a couple of points for the OP to consider.


    The weight of the 9mm seems to be good (I don't shoot 9mm), but the .40 and .45 seem awfully light weight.
    It was a question to gain information, not meant to disparage you in anyway. Sorry you chose to take it that way
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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