Ammo for emergency stash (.223 Rem)? - Page 2

Ammo for emergency stash (.223 Rem)?

This is a discussion on Ammo for emergency stash (.223 Rem)? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by claybreaker0 I'm constantly trying to build up my ammo stash for SHTF scenario's. Everytime I'm out, I get a little bit of ...

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Thread: Ammo for emergency stash (.223 Rem)?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claybreaker0 View Post
    I'm constantly trying to build up my ammo stash for SHTF scenario's. Everytime I'm out, I get a little bit of this, and a little bit of that for my emergency stash of ammo (.223 for my AR). I know that optimally a round like the Hornady TAP ballistic tip round would be best. But at $25 for a box of 20, it can get pretty expensive.

    What are your thoughts on the 45/55gr Winchester Varmint/Remington HP rounds for stashing? At my local WM I can get 40 round boxes for $24. This would enable me to buy more rounds, and load more magazines.

    Also, the military uses FMJ rounds I believe? I would rather use a HP round, but this same WM has Federal .223 in 100rd boxes for $39. I use those rounds for practice, but had never thought about using them for emergency situations?
    I hate to start of a reply with another quote, but the following is what I think as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    FMJ will get better penetration , and in a SHTF scenario, would be my preference.
    Not only that, but you can get the FMJ for around $8.50 per box of 20 which to me is even ridiculous now because I still have plenty of boxes in my stash marked $3.50. The Winchester white box .223 varmint bulk 40 rounds are nice.......I keep a few boxes just for varmints like coyotes. Figure the cost comparison on 40 rounds of the 45gr HPs and the commercially made (not surplus) .223 FMJ on the market now. Buy in bulk if you can........if you can't, find another or a couple to split the cost of 500 or 1000 rounds of FMJ. Just my opinion. You're always open to that when you ask.

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    As far as bullet design goes, think about the range at which you are going to be engaging potential targets. The FMJ rounds do quite well as long as you keep them above their "frangible threshold". This means if you are launching them out of a long tube with higher velocity you are good for about four hundred meters. As you go to shorter barrels that range will decrease. If you have an eleven inch barrel with a long flash hider that range will drop to as low as one hundred fifty yards.
    Actually, those ranges are extremely optimistic, to say the least, as far as reliable fragmentation goes... According to the ammo oracle, the 62gr M855 has a reliable expansion range of 12 to 15 meters out of an 11.5" bbl. Out of a 20" bbl, using the lighter (55gr) M193 ammo, you can expect a maximum of 200m. Beyond 200m, military (or equivalent) ammo will not reliably expand.

    Here's the chart from Ammo Oracle...

    Distance to 2700 fps (velocity needed for reliable expansion)
    /////////////////////20" Barrel//////16" Barrel///////14.5" Barrel//////11.5" Barrel
    M193 (55gr)//////190-200m//////140-150m//////95-100m//////////40-45m
    M855 (62gr)//////140-150m//////90-95m/////////45-50m////////////12-15m
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    OPFOR I would bet that your numbers are more reliable than mine.
    I am not using NATO spec ammo in my rifles. For the most part I roll my own. My carbine ammo is thinly jacketed BTHP match (Hornady I believe). The rifle stuff is again Hornady, 55g FMJ. I dont know how thick the jacket is compared to the Mil-spec stuff. I figure the lighter match bullet jacket will give me the expansion/fragmentation out of the carbine at close range and out of the rifle at longer range than the FMJ. The trade off is using it at close range out of the rifle it will blow up and maybe not give optimum penetration. Hence, two different loadings
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    The jacket on military ammo is relatively thick - you may indeed get reliable fragmentation out of very thinly jacketed ammo at longer ranges... I only shoot (with limited exception) M855 and M193, though we are slowly getting my agency to come around to some different loadings for special applications.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    My SHTF scenarios include the Dem-o-craps being able to impose draconian measures like a dollar-a-round tax, limiting purchases etc. As such I generally buy military surplus ammo in half, to case lots packed in military air tight cans (or 308 in 120 round battle packs) for long term storage.

    Remember the steel core Chi-com 7.62X39 that was baned as pistol ammo? I knew a couple dealers that got caught with several cases on hand with only 30 days to sale and I am still sitting on 4 cases, 2 "sardine" cans of 650 rounds (on stripper clips) per case.

    Ammo for SHTF needs to be stored in hermetically sealed containers, what I do for ammo that doesn't come sealed I use military ammo cans with rubber gaskets in good shape, fill with boxes of ammo and set open in the summer sun to warm, then toss in a silica jell pack close and store in a cool place (basement). When cool it will be near impossible to open without warming or puncturing due to being essentially vacuum sealed and will store for decades.

    There are several internet sites that sale sealed cases of surplus ammo at not bad (for today) prices. Watch for sales and jump in!

  7. #21
    RKM is offline
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    I've been trying to find the perfect SD ammo for my 5.56 M&P15. The likely hood of using my AR for SD is pretty low. It's nice to have stashed anyway. For plinking and shooting paper, I just pick up whatever, brass cased 55gr, JHP, FMJ, whatever is available. I haven't noticed any accuracy issues to 100 yards. Usually Winchester 5.56 rounds or Remington UMC .223 rounds.

    I have a 16" 1:9 twist barrel. I've read all over the internet 69gr is typically the maximum for 16" 1:9 barrels as far as accuracy goes. But to what range? I typically only shoot my AR to 100 yards. I've been doing some reading saying that the 75gr TAP rounds are actually pretty accurate in a 1:9 twist 16" barrel to 150 yards.

    Also "my opinion" of accuracy may be different to others. I'm not a competitive shooter. 4-5" groups at 100 yards are enough to make me happy. I would think that would be fairly effective in the EXTREMELY unlikely chance I'm defending myself from that distance. Now, how would the 75gr TAP rounds do at 25-50 yards? I'm more concerned about that range. If I have to defend myself from over 100-150 yards, I'm either a dead man to begin with, or I'll use a .308 from a bolt-action.

    So, with that said, think 75gr TAP will suite my needs? Will they tumble and fragment at 25-50 yards? And can I find 75gr in 5.56 or just .223?

    Figured I'd reply here instead of starting a thread. It's still on topic :)

    EDIT: After a few hours on google, I started to do some research, finding alot of 5.56 bashers. I then came across this:
    Next time you look at an M-4 or an AR-15, notice it says “5.56 NATO 1:7” on the barrel. This literally translates into; “the bullet will make 1 full rotation for every 7 inches of this barrel.” This was not always the standard twist set for the new NATO round. The first AR-15 made by Armalite, had a 1:14 twist making it a very, very unstable round. One can only imagine the orientation of the entry and exit wounds... Not sure about how reliable the source is.

    So I figure, close range ammo, 150 yards or less, a nice unstable bullet should prove to be more effective. 77 grain in a 1:9 should serve well :) As accurate, no, but like I said, I figure 4-5" groups would make for effective placement, in my opinion. and the groups would only be tighter, the closer the target is. And plus, one shot of 5.56 may not prove to be immediately incapacitating, but who pulls the trigger once? They're semi-auto (and select fire for military) for a reason :) My brother in-law has served in Iraq twice, and he's very happy with the M4 platform and 5.56 round.

    Besides, plenty of people survive 7.62 wounds just like enemy's survive 5.56 wounds. The old shot placement quote is not a joke.

    I've often thought of buying a 6.8mm upper. I'd rarely target shoot with 6.8mm, maybe to dial it in, but would it really be worth having an entire upper JUST for SD or HD use? I've thought it over, an no, it's just not worth it to me. 5.56 should suit me well.

    Sigh, anyway, these are just my opinions. Take it for what it's worth...
    Last edited by RKM; September 2nd, 2010 at 10:27 PM.

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