Which 9mm would you carry between the two below

This is a discussion on Which 9mm would you carry between the two below within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bullet type, weight grain, and manufacture are all important, but when faced with a need to defend threat most importantly is shot placement as evidenced ...

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Thread: Which 9mm would you carry between the two below

  1. #46
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    Bullet type, weight grain, and manufacture are all important, but when faced with a need to defend threat most importantly is shot placement as evidenced by the kill factor of the mighty 22cal.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giffordd View Post
    Bullet type, weight grain, and manufacture are all important, but when faced with a need to defend threat most importantly is shot placement as evidenced by the kill factor of the mighty 22cal.
    Agreed. But when it comes to my life I am a fan of stacking the odds in my favor as much as possible.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  4. #48
    Member Array 147 Grain's Avatar
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    Use 147-gr. in all 9mm applications and save the lighterweight stuff for the range. The heavier-weight load also loses less velocity out of a short barrel than lighter projectiles because it stays in the barrel for a longer period of time.
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I like a high velocity mid weight in 9mm.
    My old department got sour on the 147 grain loads back in the early 1990's when we had some shootings where the 147g Hydrashocks failed to expand. Those were out of Beretta 92Ds. While newer designs will undoubtedly perform better, you are using a shorter barrel and as such unless using a specifically designed short barrel loading will be giving up some velocity. If you are looking at the Federal 9BPLE for the 115 grain it has a good track record but with the short tube I don't know what your muzzle flash will be like. At night it could be an issue.
    I think the 124-127 grain loads are the best compromise. I currently carry Ranger T 127g +P+
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  6. #50
    New Member Array rob1109's Avatar
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    9mm ammo

    Glock 26 + Winchester 127Gr. +P+ = 1250fps.......

  7. #51
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    What is the preferred SD load out of a G19?
    I was carrying 115 Gr. corbons, ran out at the range testing need to reorder.
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  8. #52
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    Federal HST 147-gr. +P (P9HST4) and Winchester Ranger T 147-gr. (RA9T) performed admirably and were very accurate in my 3 9mm's today at the range.
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Personally, I would never use +P+ since it has no standard.
    This. No +P+ in ANY of my guns.

    Here's the list of what I run for 9mm: 124gr and 147gr HST and HST +P (occasionally only); 124gr Hydra-Shok; 124gr Gold Dot; 115gr Critical Defense; 124gr PDX-1
    Last edited by swmp9jrm; November 23rd, 2010 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Add Info
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Assuming reliability, you can always stagger load.
    Do not do this. ^^

    Changes in projectile weight and/or powder charge (which affects velocity) and even change in projectile type _does_ result in POI ('Point of Impact') shift.
    This advisory of "stagger load" is often referred to and advised on gunfu forums and by laymen, but it is very much not advisable for the simple reason stated...POI shift.

    This is functionally critical info to know, and in kind critical to know _NOT_ to do.
    Please do not perpetuate such advisorys as the round that is fired and _misses_ could be the POI shifted projectile that strikes me or my family as among the background (!).

    - Janq

    P.S. - This applies across the board regardless of barrel length, round or projectile type, action type or overall firearm type be it handgun, rifle and even shotgun too running either shot or slug projectile(s) out of either a smooth or rifled barrel with or without choke.
    This is a basic item of physics that is inescapable and cannot be counteracted by any single shooter nor specific firearm manufacturers production method; Contrary to also sadly common gunfu folklore and fictional TV/movie/book (Angelina Jolie cannot shoot around corners!) misrepresentation.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  11. #55
    Member Array 147 Grain's Avatar
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    Out of the 3 ammo choices:

    Federal's HST 147-gr. (P9HST2) will perform best in the Glock 26's 3 1/2" barrel. Heavier bullets lose less velocity than lighterweight projectiles. Unbonded 147-gr. loads typically outperform all other 9mm loads in general. IF you insist on a midweight bullet and ignore nemerous ballistic testing results in Gel, 4-Ply Denim, Heavy Cloth, Glass, Wallboard and Metal, then please make sure you're using bonded 124-gr. +P ammo.

    For civilian SD, heavy for caliber loads (i.e. 147-gr. in 9mm) achieve the best results (penetration and expansion) in unbonded form; midweight bullets at +P higher velocities are better in bonded form to insure adequate penetration. Bonded bullets naturally don't expand as much as their unbonded counterparts.

    Unbonded Examples: Federal 147-gr. (P9HST2) in short barrels and +P 147-gr. (P9HST4) in 4" and longer barrels. Winchester Ranger T's in 147-gr. (R9AT) also work well in the Glock 26 3 1/2" barrel, and we should also include the standard pressure Remington 147-gr. Golden Saber (GS9MMC) too.

    Although the vaunted 127-gr. +P+ Ranger T gets all the attention (and the snappy recoil), the lower recoiling 147-gr. (RA9T) is far more gentle and controllable ........ and easily outperforms it with better expansion and penetration in Gel and 4-Ply Denim.

    http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollec...law_bullit.swf

    Bonded Example: 124-gr. +P Gold Dot (23611) or Ranger T 124-gr. +P (RA9TBAB).
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Be sure your gun "likes " the ammo. I don't know why, but 1/2 of the 9mm's I have do NOT like 147 gr HP at all....... so I don't keep it around so I don't get it mixed up and in the wrong gun. I use 124 gr and it works fine in all of them..... I have HST , Gold Dot and Hornandy, and wouldn't argue against any of them ..... but to the most part, like the HST 124 gr the best.
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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'm not really a fan of the 147's in a 9mm.
    They just dont go fast enough.
    x2

    Me myself, I use +p+ hi-shock Federals in 115gr. Seen it in action and loved the result. Next to that, the only other rounds that I would use is Speer gold dot 124gr +p or Remington Golden Saber 124gr +p
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  14. #58
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    I found a very good article about self-defense ammo based on the studies of Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshal and Ed Sanow who are police officers who have extensively studied the issue of firearms, ammunition and stopping power. The studies indicate that the best 9mm ammo for self defense is the Cor-Bon 115gr JHP which they consider the most powerful and proven street man stopper in this caliber. They also provided the following information with regards to 147gr 9mm SD ammo:

    Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

    Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

    Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
    Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
    Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
    Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
    Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
    Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
    Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
    Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
    CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)
    Therefore, I suggest you stick with the Cor-Bon 115gr JHP.

    Source: Ammunition for the Self-Defense Firearm
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  15. #59
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    Those articles were correct 25 years ago when 147-gr. bullets did not perform well. Technology advancement has changed this scenario and the heavy for caliber projectiles now perform in a much more positive manner (across all major caliber lines) and are recommended by top LE officials throughout the world.

    In short, that (article) was then; this (new 147-gr. technology) is now!
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 147 Grain View Post
    Those articles were correct 25 years ago when 147-gr. bullets did not perform well. Technology advancement has changed this scenario and the heavy for caliber projectiles now perform in a much more positive manner (across all major caliber lines) and are recommended by top LE officials throughout the world.

    In short, that (article) was then; this (new 147-gr. technology) is now!
    Well, then why are some 9mm handguns using 147gr bullets still having FTF malfunctions?
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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