Bullets As Currency

This is a discussion on Bullets As Currency within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM My Super Walmart sells the 100rd .45 WWB for$34.95. Now see that is a price more reasonable. Crazy high relative to ...

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Thread: Bullets As Currency

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    My Super Walmart sells the 100rd .45 WWB for$34.95.
    Now see that is a price more reasonable.
    Crazy high relative to days gone by but still much more reasonable.

    As much as folks say support your local gun shops, sadly I've found in my specific area that is quite difficult to do when they are charging what I loosely term as 'rape fees', for darn near everything. : (
    All the WalMarts in my region within an hours drive stopped selling guns and then ammo two years ago. Very unfortunate.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    I like to support my LGS, but I buy ALL my ammo from Wallyworld......
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  4. #18
    New Member Array katesbee's Avatar
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    I agree ammo will become increasingly expensive, and very valuable as an item of barter, especially in SHTF scenarios. But to actually become *currency*? I don't think so. Currency has to be a durable storage of wealth, hence the popularity of silver & gold. If we ever get a currency that makes sense, it will go back to precious metals. Bullets are too easily affected by humidity & other storage conditions, I think (not an expert here). But valuable and worth stocking up on? You betcha (Yes I am winking Palin-style.)
    When I start to carry for real I will update this to something awesome and clever. Or at least different.

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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    I have ammo & guns.....you have gold......then I have ammo, guns & gold.......lol





    j/k
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Katesbee,

    Paper casing ammo has been dug up from being stored in earth (dropped and sunken over time) and found to be fully functional.
    There is a display on just this at the Springfield Armory museum discussing such findings.
    Conventional modern ammo (brass and steel cased) has been found to endure same for decades even among unconditioned caches such as the one they found under a bridge in NYC early into the Gulf War that had been full up with WW2 era production 50 BMG. The Army tested them, found them to be -ok and off the entire cache got shipped to Iraq & Afghanistan for use by the grandkids of the guys & gals who had made it. That was at the time a NY Times feature article.

    Ammunition is very durable and quite resilient.
    It takes effort to kill a metal casing round, while modern polymer shotgun shells they too are pretty tough...Much tougher than their paper & cardboard predecessors which themselves lasted and endured for decades of sitting around on shelves in heat & cold.
    Heat and humidity may/might reduce it's top end FPS for a given round (not necessarily the entire box/cache), but it will take much effort to nullify a round to make it not go pop upon a hammer drop. Folk have been pulling AK47s off of and out of desert sand for 50 yrs. now and they are well known to go pop with just a mechanical dust off.
    Valuable.

    BTW, welcome to the forum!

    - Janq

    "I have ammo & guns.....you have gold......then I have ammo, guns & gold" - zxr9cam
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    LOL at Janq & his new sig......
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Ammo will definitely have its place as currency in an EOTWAWKI scenario. The only problem with "hard currency" is that its "inherent value" is subject to market conditions. As with anything, it is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it or what it can do. If you need to put some food on your table what is worth more to you, that ounce of gold or a Marlin .22? Another ounce can get you a box of ammo. Another ounce can get you a pound of salt. Don't want to pay those prices? Try your luck somewhere else.

    I can also see folks counterfeiting ammo. A punch can restore a used primer to new appearance. Throw a little sand in the case and then seat and crimp. Looks fine, feels right, but when the firing pin hits, nothing. And with a magazine full of dud ammo, what are you going to do about it?
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    And that is key.

    The Kruggerand is an internationally accepted monetary unit, no different than a US dollar or a Deutsche mark.
    It's value backed not by a nation but rather the then traded price of gold as a commodity. Money itself (paper and metal) are market backed commoditys, insured by a nations credit rating (US) if not it's own treasury.

    With no nation, no credit rating because there is no longer a market to support and inflate it thus motivating purchase & sale of a given treasury...Then that same Kruggerand just becomes an ingot of shiny metal that is pretty to look at.
    Same as with a Rolex watch (preferably gold but stainless will work in a pinch) how that too is a world recognized commodity trade unit, even as functionally it is really just a piece of fashioned metal jewelry.

    Good luck to the precious metal collectors surviving off of a Kruggerand or a watch, or defending ones self against haters & raiders who have in hand pedestrian low class lead bullets and sharpened edge steel.

    I'd trade my weight in gold for a mechanically simple and thus durable & reliable firearm chambered in a common round or shell type, along with a basic spare parts kit (springs and two firing pins) as well as a backpack (something I can easily carry on my body) full of production (no-reloads!) ammunition....IF I were forced to live life like the Road Warrior.
    Throw in an ACOG and I'll swap my car with a full tank of gas; Which I'd then use along with the gun and ammo to follow and steal back from the sucka along with food and Huggies he/she might have hanging around as well.

    - Janq
    I recommend you look at interviews done with people in Zimbabwe, where they'll tell you that you need 0.3 grams of gold per day or you'll starve. There are few examples of worse countries to live in than that, and gold is often the ONLY useful money there. Gold has been money since the dawn of civilization, along with silver. When the SHTF, which it has many times before in various places in the world, they remain as a medium of exchange. You can read history books and find accounts of speculators walking onto farms in the Weimar Republic and buying several acres of land with a few silver dollars, because it actually had value, unlike the worthless paper. Ammunition and weapons certainly can serve that purpose as well, but to think that metals that have been precious for 6,000 years will suddenly cease to be now, because the US collapses, is taking an enormous bet against history. Roman gold and silver continued to be used long after the fall of the western empire, which is probably fairly close to a parallel of a US collapse. I'm not trying to insult you or anyone else who thinks gold would be useless if the dollar collapsed (which a lot of people seem to think), but I do think it is worth considering that in other collapses, gold and silver have been excellent assets to have. I also think ammunition could very well be used as a medium of exchange, along with tobacco and liquor.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Understood Peckman, and was considered...Prior to posting.

    But along with that history consider also that before paper money (very new concept as by human history) civilization had been using rare metals and stones too as a currency within an established civilization. It was there form of 'money' and that money had established systems of value through their own economys.
    As I rad the OP query to be it's not in time of an alternate economy where life is civilized, nor is it a case of being in a land that otherwise has very few resources available and thus having 'money' in the form of gold would be useful to escape to another region (country) such as your Zimbabwe example, and many others among Africa current and near past.

    My view of thinking was and is more akin to The Road type scenario where life is not so civil and no real civilization rebuilds itself...Quickly.
    No insult taken (?). Again as I said to start I've not lived through apocalypse (thank GOD!) so it's not like I can say with surety.
    I'd double down on guns and ammo....and if gold were actually a need, it's then simple enough to spy the gold exchange depot from a distance and wait for someone to bring me some.
    A method of survival also well featured throughout history. : \

    - Janq
    Last edited by HotGuns; September 27th, 2010 at 11:08 PM. Reason: bad link
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Well Janq, the ammunition would certainly be useful, no doubt about it. I just think having both that and gold and silver coins would serve even better. Nevertheless, I'm sure with just ammo and weapons you would still do fine. I guess I just like to hedge my bets. If I had to pick between a gold coin and a loaded weapon I would go with the weapon under such a scenario, though I'd rather have both. I would call the fall of Rome something much like a general and complete breakdown and I'm sure for many Roman provinces it may have seemed quite apocalyptic. Nevertheless, gold and silver were still very good things to have, and I think they still would be in the absence of government. After all, they evolved into money in the first place in the absence of any real government, because people valued it, just like they do now.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Janq,

    I want to know where your buying 550 rd boxes of 22 for 11 bucks. Wally World is at 18 or 19 bucks per 550 rd box in our area.

    As far as using ammo as currency. It will be like anything else of value if things get really really bad. Oil, gas, ammo, gold, silver, food, clean water, and even ones ability to be useful in society or handy with their hands will be used as currency. Barter and exchange of item of perceived similar value have always been traded. This is whether the item is made of metal, paper, or even a food source.

    I have enough ammo to last me for a couple of years based on my current shooting. I have enough reloading supplies to drag that out another couple of more years. Well that is if I don't furnish friends or family with reloaded ammo when they need it. Ammo prices have come down some in the past 5 or 6 months but are nowhere near where they should be. Reloading supplies are still way to high, especially if you figure your time in to the cost of the reloaded ammo. I don't count my time, but if ammo ever got to be a real commodity, you can bet that my time would be factored into the price of the exchange.

    One thing to consider is the price of those little pellets. those are still pretty cheap, and easy to store thousands and thousands of them in a small space and they will never go bad. A good pellet rifle is great for practice, taking small game, and not giving yourself away if your trying to be quite or keep nosey folks from knowing where your at. Even at the current high price of 22 rounds and pellets you really can't go wrong with having 10,000 or so of each of them on hand. If the scenario that the OP posted about ever does come true you will make back your money exponentially.

    BTW, some of you need to stop buying ammo so the price will come down for those of us who want to risk keeping ammo as a form of currency in future years.
    Last edited by farronwolf; September 15th, 2010 at 09:49 PM.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Yes farronwolf, I be at about 10,000 prmers & Boolits plenty of powder & when times get toughf, I don't shoot as often as I should, Though for now Is the time to STOCK UP ; )
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  14. #28
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    Well, I started buying ammo several years ago...I'm ready to trade bullets for gasoline.:yup
    Yes, I do think that ammo could be an excellent barter item.
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  15. #29
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    I defiantly see ammo as a barter item in a situation where money is useless.

    I like to buy military surplus in lots that allow it to remain in original sealed containers, there are several sites on line that sale mil surp at reasonable prices.

    Since I've been over here making a better than good paycheck; the UPS driver knows to back up to the garage door

  16. #30
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    The way I look at it , gold is just a piece of metal. You can't eat it, can't hunt with it, can't defend yourself with it. In a crisis it's worthless. Ammo on the other hand covers all the bases, hunting, defense, trading for necessities such as food, medicine, etc.
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