Bullets As Currency

This is a discussion on Bullets As Currency within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have heard of people saving up Gold and Silver for a rough time ahead. I often wanted to ask someone how much gold would ...

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Thread: Bullets As Currency

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I have heard of people saving up Gold and Silver for a rough time ahead. I often wanted to ask someone how much gold would you give for 60lbs of fresh deer meat? Clothing, etc.... I live in the country. If such a time were ever to come, it would be guns, ammo, fuel, tools and other items that would be a better trade for what you need than gold or silver. Gold or silver make work where you live but not here where we know how to live off the land. YMMV
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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    And what happens to all the "game" when EVERYBODY is living off the land......
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    And what happens to all the "game" when EVERYBODY is living off the land......
    You go it by foot to some other land and use that gold & silver to trade for a gun, ammo and a pair of Nikes along the way...



    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  5. #49
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    /\/\....lol
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While of older vintage, "Lucifer's Hammer" provides insight into some possibilities in the type of situation being discuss.

  7. #51
    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    So thinking practically, if ammo did become a form of currency. What rounds would be worthwhile? Presumably 9mm, .45, .22lr, probably .308 and .223, and 12ga & 20ga. But what about the finer points, JHP vs FMJ, top shelf versus crap, etc. Would people take these factors into consideration? Would standard values eventually become common knowledge? Or would it always be on a case-by-case basis depending on how desparate the transaction is? What about reloads vs factory? Counterfeit ammo (could it happen if unscrupulous people w/ reloading equipment just loaded brass with sand?) Also, what about handling ammo. After a while, would all the body oil from repeat handling risk deactivating the primers? Would ammo lose value with signs of wear?
    pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I think that the availability of ammo for barter, would determine how particular people would be as to the projectile type, etc.

    As to counterfeit/sand filled ammo, I would suggest that a after a few such transactions there would be a number of people looking for them with ill intent.

    I see very little possiblity of handling effecting primers.

  9. #53
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    I read an interesting article on using growing Tobacco in a SHTF scenario. I tried attaching it to this post, but it exceeded the size limits. I'll e-mail it to anyone who wants to read it, since it's only a few pages long. (PDF file) It has medical properties, as well as it's obvious smoking purposes. You just have to hope whoever you're bartering with has a need for it. But I'd much rather grow tobacco (since i can just keep growing it over and over without buying anything) instead of trading away precious ammunition.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Of course the most common calibers would be in highest demand, but off setting that is initially supplies would be high. This is where it could get interesting. If you have an oddball caliber weapon it could work for you in one aspect and against you in another. Think back to the post election ammo shortage. What could you get then? A .204 Ruger upper for your AR might be a good thing to have. The ammo, not being that common would not have as much barter value. It can still feed you but if you found yourself in a scenario where you were negotiating with a numerically superior hostile group they would be less likely to be interested in something like .204 than they would in .223 or maybe 7.62x39. If you had to make a tactical withdrawl while raiders ransacked your place, they would probably walk off with the common stuff but might be more inclined to leave the oddball stuff.

    .22 rimfire ammo in short, long, and long rifle would be good to have as there are so many .22's out there. Any of them can be safely fired in a .22LR chamber. The .22 WMR would be good for hunting, but the chamber is actually a larger diameter than the others, so you can't safely shoot non magnums in a .22 magnum weapon. That makes your .22 magnum sort of a one trick pony. A Ruger Bearcat revolver with both magnum and long rifle cylinders could be your best friend.

    A .357 magnum revolver and/or lever action rifle would be good. It can shoot either .38special or full magnum ammo. The magnum stuff while more powerful and higher value to some, is no help to someone with a .38special weapon. As far as barter ammo, I think .38 special would be a better choice. Bigger target audience if you'll pardon the pun. Same can be said for the .44special and .44 magnum.

    As far as rifles go, there are a couple of ways to look at things. There are chamber inserts you can get that will enable you to shoot .308 in a .30-06 and adapter cartridges that let you shoot .30 carbine ammo in .308 or .30-06 chambers. There are also adapters that enable you to shoot .22 rimfires in a .223 chamber. These could be good things to have.

    People will of course be looking for .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 ammo. In shotguns of course there is the 12 gauge. In the rifle ammo, for soft targets at close ranges pretty much anything would work. It is just some would work faster than others. For the shotty I think one would need to look at fight ammo vs food ammo. I don't want to use the same stuff on bad guy as I would on a bird.

    In a world with very limited medical serivces, drugs, surgeons etc. the difference between bullet types will be less significant. In the civil war round balls and conical lead bullets killed how many? The difference with modern hollow points is that they incapacitate faster on average than round nose. I wouldn't want to be hit with either one, but do I want to bleed out from a nicked artery or die later from infection? Neither option is particularly appealing.
    For barter purposes I think the premium ammo would demand a premium at first but if we are talking a long term scenario (years) I think anything that goes bang is good.
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  11. #55
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    Actually, (if you can afford it) there are important reasons to own some internationally recognized Gold aside from it possibly being strictly a SHTF barter item to trade for toilet paper.

    That having been said ~ Ammunition, Cigarettes, Booze, Medical supplies etc...would be very worthwhile as trade/barter items.
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  12. #56
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    And what happens to all the "game" when EVERYBODY is living off the land......
    We learn very quickly not to waste anything. How much food does the average household throw out every week/year. If it got to the point where you had to actually live off the land, when you shot a deer, hog, or whatever, if you aren't able to smoke or dry the meat to preserve it, you would trade that meat to someone who didn't have meat for some veggies or fuel or salt/suger or something else you didn't have and they were willing to trade for your meat.

    One other benefit would be folks would tend to eat less and we would be a thinner nation. Just look at all the reality shows like survivor, the colony ect. Just about everyone of those folks looses excess weight pretty quickly. I bet the diabetes rate in this country would drop pretty quickly.

    I can guarrantee there would be a run on laying hens. You figure that hens average one egg per day, a handful of hens would be sufficient protien for a small family. A dozen of them and you have more stuff to barter with.

    Just things to think about.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    I don't know the answer of what would happen exactly and I hope to never find out.
    But I am very strongly supposing that it would be ugly and folk gonna lose their mind if the power doesn't come back up within 72 hrs. max, and as long as they don't see any mushroom clouds in the sky.
    - Janq
    Janq wrote: "folk gonna lose their mind if the power doesn't come back up within 72 hrs," and he is absolutely on the mark with that commetn.

    Keep in mind, no power means gasoline pumps don't work. Water pumps don't work. Air conditioners don't work ( a big issue here), furnaces don't work either. Space heaters might run on propane till the supply runs out--quickly, and natural gas won't be delivered if there is wide spread prolonged power loss.

    Realistically, 3 days is about all it would hold together. We all saw that with Katrina and 2 years ago with much less drama, Ike.

    We live in a very brittle society. And the worst aspect is that I don't think either DOD or Homeland Security or FEMA has put much thought into how to add resiliency as part of disaster planning.

    We may have been more resilient 55-60 years ago when we were feverishly building bomb shelters and stocking them. Today, we have absolutely no preparation, and almost everything is delivered somehow on an as needed basis, without storage. Take a look at your local Wally and Lowes and Big Box grocery. All the space is utilized for what is in stock for immediate sale, not for even short term reserve storage.


    Mcp1810 in post 41 underestimates the threat and overestimates his chances of resisting the hordes.

    Short of a self contained well hidden bunker style bomb shelter underground hidden fortress, he will get over run-- even in the boonies of rural central Texas.

    I lived for several years without electricity. Believe me, folks nowadays don't have a clue how. But even back then in the 1940s, we could manage to drive to a store once every couple of weeks, blocks of ice got delivered to sort of keep perishables cool. Kerosene was available for cooking and a little bit of night light. Take the storage away, take the transportation & delivery away, and chaos will reign.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Hopyard may very well be right about my situation. My current home is a compromise. It got me out of Maryland but it kept my wife in the suburbs. It took six months of flying back and forth from Maryland to Houston to find an acceptable compromise.
    How many of you have really thought about where you really are in the world if things go bad? What are your neighbors like? What do they do? What can they do for you and what can you do for them? As has been stated barter is not just for goods.

    Where I am is not perfect, but it is actually pretty good. I have active and former LEO's in the 'hood. I also have doctors and paramedics, a lot of former military, civil, electrical, mechanical and chemical engineers. We have an eight foot wall or fence surounding us with two gates. We could easily harden what we have, but in the brutal post apocolyptic world, you want to test our defenses or try the neighborhood across the road with no perimeter?
    You know the old saying, if we are being chased by a bear, I don't have to out run the bear. I just have to out run you!

    FEMA is a 72 hour response agency. In theory they can have boots on the ground anywhere in the U.S. inside 72 hours. For a local or even regional event that is O.K. For something nation wide, they just don't have the resources. In large scale emergencies a lot of what gets done is done by local assets. For more information I strongly suggest folks take some of the online classes through FEMA's Emergency Management Institute. They have self paced on line independant study classes. Anyone interested in a Community Emergency Response Team should contact their local emergency management office.
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  15. #59
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Actually, (if you can afford it) there are important reasons to own some internationally recognized Gold aside from it possibly being strictly a SHTF barter item to trade for toilet paper.

    That having been said ~ Ammunition, Cigarettes, Booze, Medical supplies etc...would be very worthwhile as trade/barter items.
    Reasons to own gold after the SHTF:
    1.
    2.
    3.
    Gold is only one color.....what makes "internationally recognized" gold more valuable? Something to do with the UN? If the SHTF, I won't need to barter with outside sources. It's going to be in my own back yard and down the road. Toilet paper? For us rednecks, toilet paper grows on trees. SHTF....and everything will be brown and stinky. Gold will be something of the past......just like green backs. Surviving at home has nothing to do with international. That's where we've made our mistakes thus far. Not taking care of things at home.

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I can guarrantee there would be a run on laying hens. You figure that hens average one egg per day, a handful of hens would be sufficient protien for a small family. A dozen of them and you have more stuff to barter with.

    Just things to think about.
    Animals I know about.
    I already have a good stock of hens, and with a rooster you can make more birds pretty quickly (a generation of chickens is what, 6 months?) but the kicker is keeping them alive. Last spring I buried more birds than I can remember. Chicks sometimes just die and chickens are stupid, I had several figure out ways to kill themselves. Also hens don't *always* lay every day, I am getting about 10 eggs per day from 20 girls, but some of them are young yet and not laying regularly, and some are starting to slow down with age. A hen is really only at her prime for a short period. At least they can be eaten when they are past their prime, but I think most people have misconseptions about how many chickens you'd actually need and not just any hen will set on the eggs to hatch more - most high-production laying breeds (like you would buy at the feedstore) have their brooding instincts bred out of them. I already battle raccoons and foxes by the droves. Everyone who owns chickens even in suburbia already needs a live trap and a .22 and often times, even in non-dire situations they find that their neighbors are stealing eggs. Somebody would have to keep round the clock guard on them birds, not only from natural predators but the 2-legged type as well. I suspect anyone breeding and training quality LSG (livestock guardian dogs, big ones) would have a good investment going since they will protect birds if properly trained ;) Donkeys work well for protecting other livestock such as goats from natural predators. I think those who have animals will need the ammo to protect what they have, because the animals will be worth faaaaaar more than the box of .22's Even before the economy got bad my aunt had someone steal a steer and skin it right at the edge of their pasture. There's a reason cowboys had to guard the herds, and it wasn't the coyotes. Those who rely on electric fences for containment and predator deterrence would have to build something tangable very quickly if the power went out long term.
    What concerns me, if the SHTF would my family be a sufficient number of people to man those round-the-clock guards? Also I don't know much about perserving food without using electricity.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

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