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Bullets As Currency

11K views 81 replies 39 participants last post by  TedBeau 
#1 ·
I guess this is the proper forum for this discussion...if not, mods, please move...

I have heard and read several articles (print and TV) that discuss situation where the Brown Stuff has hit the overhead oscillating mechanism...

In those articles, there was discussion of what will be used as currency if we do have a break-down in society...

Of course, gold is a very popular item, but bullets were listed a couple of times as a potential currency...

That got be to thinking, since ammo prices are reasonable right now...should I stock up like I'm saving for the future...or are people "blowin smoke" thinking ammo will be a viable currency?
 
#2 ·
Stranger things have happened.

When it hits the fan, some people will wake up and realize that they were in error by not preparing for the worst. These people will understand that they need guns and ammo for self defense. Bullets and guns could be used for barter. If its that bad, the fake money that we have now will probably be worthless, so unless you have gold and silver, AMMO might be able to be swapped out for something that you need...like food.

As for blowing "smoke" be your own judge. Read up on history and see what happens when civilizations start coming apart at the seams.You don't have to go too far back really.
 
#3 ·
Where do you live that ammo prices are reasonable?
I want to catch a flight there and make some securitys purchases as an investment.

In my zone a 50 rd. box of Remington UMC .45 ACP FMJ (garbage ammo...Very dirty and generally inconsistent) runs $21 on "sale" at Dicks, and I've seen at a local gun shop two WWB 100 rd. bricks marked on the shelf at $52, each! FIFTY TWO DOLLARS...US!
I used to buy a brick of WWB for $9.99 at the Fairfax, VA Wal-Mart, 6 or 7 yrs. ago....And back then I'd thought ehh this stuff costs barely nothing on the gross.
Today a 550 rd. box of .22 runs $11. That same product used to be just 4 years ago a $5 purchase at Wal-Mart.

Ammo now costs more than gold per pound, or at least seems it. : (

I could very easily see ammo on a per round basis becoming a commodity if the monetary system were to fold.
People talk about gold and silver...But what you gonna do with that? It's pretty much useless.
You can't eat it and you can't fashion it into anything that will allow you to eat or survive. A gold knife or a silver machete?!
Good luck transporting it too as it's heavy and cumbersome.
Meanwhile ammo...It's heavy and bulky too, BUT if some fool wants to take your food or tools poof that ammo instantly becomes real world useful.
As well if you need food or tools, well there isn't much salesmanship required toward a bullet as there is explaining how a bar of gold or piece of silver can be useful for something other than fashioning jewelry you can't wear...Because you'll need bullets to defend it against armed persons wanting to take it, and you for being fool enough to wear hey look at me I'm rich and clueless shiny bits.

My own I gotta survive view, and no I have not lived through an apocalypse yet so maybe the precious metal hoarders just might be on to something. Maybe not.

- Janq
 
#15 ·
and I've seen at a local gun shop two WWB 100 rd. bricks marked on the shelf at $52, each! FIFTY TWO DOLLARS...US!
My Super Walmart sells the 100rd .45 WWB for$34.95.
 
#6 ·
I think that the value of precious metals will be early on in the downward spiral. People will have lost trust in credit and paper currency, but have not yet accepted the level to which things will descend. After that the only ones interested in precious metals will be those with power (armed forces under their control) and wealth (land suplies, etc), to whom precious metals will still be a sign of wealth and power.
 
#75 ·
In a true EOTWAWKI scenario I do not see why anyone would want gold or silver? Can you eat it? Is it valuable as a metal working material to make hand tool? Sure its easier to bend than steel but it's also to weak to be used. Copper is a better choice.
I think that hydra (water) as it's called in Waterworld, food, seeds, fuel and ammo make much more sense as barter tools. Think about it. Go camping in a remote area for 4 weeks, and see what items make your life tolerable. Did the gold coins in you pocket do any thing for you when there is no store for 100 miles?
Water, food and firewood though do allow you to survive.
 
#7 ·
I have an old box of JHP bought years ago and when I looked at the price tag I am just dumbfounded at how much ammo costs have gone up. .45 ACP used to cost about 25 cents a round in my area and nowadays you are lucky to find .45ACP for less than 45 cents. That's one reason why I bought a 9mm, just to have a cheaper round to shoot. My .22 is fun but not the same as firing a larger caliber.

But at least .380 is back in stock!
 
#10 ·
I guess it depends on where you are at.I once bought an AK with a Kruggerand amd times werent even hard.
And that is key.

The Kruggerand is an internationally accepted monetary unit, no different than a US dollar or a Deutsche mark.
It's value backed not by a nation but rather the then traded price of gold as a commodity. Money itself (paper and metal) are market backed commoditys, insured by a nations credit rating (US) if not it's own treasury.

With no nation, no credit rating because there is no longer a market to support and inflate it thus motivating purchase & sale of a given treasury...Then that same Kruggerand just becomes an ingot of shiny metal that is pretty to look at.
Same as with a Rolex watch (preferably gold but stainless will work in a pinch) how that too is a world recognized commodity trade unit, even as functionally it is really just a piece of fashioned metal jewelry.

Good luck to the precious metal collectors surviving off of a Kruggerand or a watch, or defending ones self against haters & raiders who have in hand pedestrian low class lead bullets and sharpened edge steel.

I'd trade my weight in gold for a mechanically simple and thus durable & reliable firearm chambered in a common round or shell type, along with a basic spare parts kit (springs and two firing pins) as well as a backpack (something I can easily carry on my body) full of production (no-reloads!) ammunition....IF I were forced to live life like the Road Warrior.
Throw in an ACOG and I'll swap my car with a full tank of gas; Which I'd then use along with the gun and ammo to follow and steal back from the sucka along with food and Huggies he/she might have hanging around as well.

- Janq
 
#9 ·
Agreed HG....The good old days are done and ain't never coming back.
Like nickel pay-phone calls and fifty cent gasoline, or Coke in a glass bottle and the real _original flavor_ Doritos whihc actually tasted good.

For ammo prices to drop there would need to be a sharp reduction in demand.
Supply of ammo is finite. Demand for ammo is infinite and has been ever increasing in the US by historical marker leaps annually.
Manufacturers cannot keep up with demand, still.
It's simple and unfortunate math. : |

I'm just waiting on the future to bring along pulse rifles and stun guns.
But they'll probably be powered by the blood of albino cats or some other such even harder to procure (and thus costly) commoditized item.

- Janq
 
#11 ·
Thanks to everyone for the comments...I shall be stocking up...

Janq: My comment about prices being reasonable is a relative expression, as they were higher not too long ago...

Higher and in shorter supply...

I think gas prices are reasonable right now...if I go back to my younger days, $2.62 a gallon does not compare with $0.25 a gallon...but if you inflate that $0.25 out from, so, 1968 to today, one might not consider gas prices very reasonable...

Just a thought...
 
#14 ·
I think gas prices are reasonable right now...if I go back to my younger days, $2.62 a gallon does not compare with $0.25 a gallon...but if you inflate that $0.25 out from, so, 1968 to today, one might not consider gas prices very reasonable...

Just a thought...
My bad DJ!!

BTW agreed with regard to gas.

In fact i was just having this conversation on Monday with my good friend/mentor/employee who is 60 and recalls cheap gas.
We both agreed that following with inflation and being as you say_relative_ to that of the rest of the world, our gas prices are inexpensive...And could endure an additional penny consumption tax per gallon to say fund paying down the national debt (!).

- Janq
 
#12 ·
There's actually a good book out, "One Second After...", that is a work of fiction but outlines an all-too possible scenario. In one reference within the story, bullets are a form of currency, and if you read the book (no, I didn't write it) you can see how that could actually happen.
 
#13 ·
If money as we know it, all of the sudden has no value, then things like ammo, knifes, ax's and cutting/chopping type tools could be worth a fortune.

Yard sales and flea markets are a great place to pick up items like these on the cheap.
 
#17 ·
I like to support my LGS, but I buy ALL my ammo from Wallyworld......
 
#18 ·
I agree ammo will become increasingly expensive, and very valuable as an item of barter, especially in SHTF scenarios. But to actually become *currency*? I don't think so. Currency has to be a durable storage of wealth, hence the popularity of silver & gold. If we ever get a currency that makes sense, it will go back to precious metals. Bullets are too easily affected by humidity & other storage conditions, I think (not an expert here). But valuable and worth stocking up on? You betcha :wink: (Yes I am winking Palin-style.)
 
#19 ·
I have ammo & guns.....you have gold......then I have ammo, guns & gold.......lol





j/k
 
#33 ·
I have ammo & guns.....you have gold......then I have ammo, guns & gold.......lol
j/k
Then you run into someone like me who has gold and silver...but also has guns, ammo and backups...

Your career ends.
 
#20 ·
Katesbee,

Paper casing ammo has been dug up from being stored in earth (dropped and sunken over time) and found to be fully functional.
There is a display on just this at the Springfield Armory museum discussing such findings.
Conventional modern ammo (brass and steel cased) has been found to endure same for decades even among unconditioned caches such as the one they found under a bridge in NYC early into the Gulf War that had been full up with WW2 era production 50 BMG. The Army tested them, found them to be -ok and off the entire cache got shipped to Iraq & Afghanistan for use by the grandkids of the guys & gals who had made it. That was at the time a NY Times feature article.

Ammunition is very durable and quite resilient.
It takes effort to kill a metal casing round, while modern polymer shotgun shells they too are pretty tough...Much tougher than their paper & cardboard predecessors which themselves lasted and endured for decades of sitting around on shelves in heat & cold.
Heat and humidity may/might reduce it's top end FPS for a given round (not necessarily the entire box/cache), but it will take much effort to nullify a round to make it not go pop upon a hammer drop. Folk have been pulling AK47s off of and out of desert sand for 50 yrs. now and they are well known to go pop with just a mechanical dust off.
Valuable.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

- Janq

"I have ammo & guns.....you have gold......then I have ammo, guns & gold" - zxr9cam
 
#22 ·
Ammo will definitely have its place as currency in an EOTWAWKI scenario. The only problem with "hard currency" is that its "inherent value" is subject to market conditions. As with anything, it is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it or what it can do. If you need to put some food on your table what is worth more to you, that ounce of gold or a Marlin .22? Another ounce can get you a box of ammo. Another ounce can get you a pound of salt. Don't want to pay those prices? Try your luck somewhere else.

I can also see folks counterfeiting ammo. A punch can restore a used primer to new appearance. Throw a little sand in the case and then seat and crimp. Looks fine, feels right, but when the firing pin hits, nothing. And with a magazine full of dud ammo, what are you going to do about it?
 
#32 ·
I think alot of folks missed the point. You did not. It would not take alot going wrong before some ole 22 that can hold a good enough for supper group and a brick of ammo would be worth more than a CTS-V. I can not think of a down side to having a couple of decent 22 rifles and several bricks of ammo. Even without anything going wrong they hold their value fairly well. Let things start to go to crap and folks will start to have a need for a decent gun. This isn't even considering the need for self defense.
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Understood Peckman, and was considered...Prior to posting.

But along with that history consider also that before paper money (very new concept as by human history) civilization had been using rare metals and stones too as a currency within an established civilization. It was there form of 'money' and that money had established systems of value through their own economys.
As I rad the OP query to be it's not in time of an alternate economy where life is civilized, nor is it a case of being in a land that otherwise has very few resources available and thus having 'money' in the form of gold would be useful to escape to another region (country) such as your Zimbabwe example, and many others among Africa current and near past.

My view of thinking was and is more akin to The Road type scenario where life is not so civil and no real civilization rebuilds itself...Quickly.
No insult taken (?). Again as I said to start I've not lived through apocalypse (thank GOD!) so it's not like I can say with surety.
I'd double down on guns and ammo....and if gold were actually a need, it's then simple enough to spy the gold exchange depot from a distance and wait for someone to bring me some.
A method of survival also well featured throughout history. : \

- Janq
 
#25 ·
Well Janq, the ammunition would certainly be useful, no doubt about it. I just think having both that and gold and silver coins would serve even better. Nevertheless, I'm sure with just ammo and weapons you would still do fine. I guess I just like to hedge my bets. If I had to pick between a gold coin and a loaded weapon I would go with the weapon under such a scenario, though I'd rather have both. I would call the fall of Rome something much like a general and complete breakdown and I'm sure for many Roman provinces it may have seemed quite apocalyptic. Nevertheless, gold and silver were still very good things to have, and I think they still would be in the absence of government. After all, they evolved into money in the first place in the absence of any real government, because people valued it, just like they do now.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Janq,

I want to know where your buying 550 rd boxes of 22 for 11 bucks. Wally World is at 18 or 19 bucks per 550 rd box in our area.

As far as using ammo as currency. It will be like anything else of value if things get really really bad. Oil, gas, ammo, gold, silver, food, clean water, and even ones ability to be useful in society or handy with their hands will be used as currency. Barter and exchange of item of perceived similar value have always been traded. This is whether the item is made of metal, paper, or even a food source.

I have enough ammo to last me for a couple of years based on my current shooting. I have enough reloading supplies to drag that out another couple of more years. Well that is if I don't furnish friends or family with reloaded ammo when they need it. Ammo prices have come down some in the past 5 or 6 months but are nowhere near where they should be. Reloading supplies are still way to high, especially if you figure your time in to the cost of the reloaded ammo. I don't count my time, but if ammo ever got to be a real commodity, you can bet that my time would be factored into the price of the exchange.

One thing to consider is the price of those little pellets. those are still pretty cheap, and easy to store thousands and thousands of them in a small space and they will never go bad. A good pellet rifle is great for practice, taking small game, and not giving yourself away if your trying to be quite or keep nosey folks from knowing where your at. Even at the current high price of 22 rounds and pellets you really can't go wrong with having 10,000 or so of each of them on hand. If the scenario that the OP posted about ever does come true you will make back your money exponentially.

BTW, some of you need to stop buying ammo so the price will come down for those of us who want to risk keeping ammo as a form of currency in future years. :image035:
 
#27 ·
Yes farronwolf, I be at about 10,000 prmers & Boolits plenty of powder & when times get toughf, I don't shoot as often as I should, Though for now Is the time to STOCK UP ; )
H/D
 
#28 ·
Well, I started buying ammo several years ago...I'm ready to trade bullets for gasoline.:yup
Yes, I do think that ammo could be an excellent barter item.
 
#29 ·
I defiantly see ammo as a barter item in a situation where money is useless.

I like to buy military surplus in lots that allow it to remain in original sealed containers, there are several sites on line that sale mil surp at reasonable prices.

Since I've been over here making a better than good paycheck; the UPS driver knows to back up to the garage door :smile:
 
#30 ·
The way I look at it , gold is just a piece of metal. You can't eat it, can't hunt with it, can't defend yourself with it. In a crisis it's worthless. Ammo on the other hand covers all the bases, hunting, defense, trading for necessities such as food, medicine, etc.
 
#31 ·
That's the point of gold, precious gems, etc. Take something of little use and relatively rare, elevate their value, then display your wealth by the amount that you have. Makes perfect sense in our world.
 
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