.45 ACP with 616 ft lbs energy

This is a discussion on .45 ACP with 616 ft lbs energy within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; .45ACP 185gr Nosler JHP The fastest 185gr loading on the market! All in a package that is just shy of a +p rating! Caliber : ...

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Thread: .45 ACP with 616 ft lbs energy

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    Member Array 12 gauge's Avatar
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    .45 ACP with 616 ft lbs energy

    .45ACP 185gr Nosler JHP

    The fastest 185gr loading on the market! All in a package that is just shy of a +p rating!

    Caliber : .45ACP

    Bullet : 185gr. Nosler JHP

    Ballistics : 1225fps - 616 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911


    Pasted this from the Double Tap web page. Has anyone had any experience with this load? What is necessary for +P rating. This is the hottest load I have shot from a .45. Very nice with what I consider average recoil from stainless Wilson CQB 4".

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12 gauge View Post
    .45ACP 185gr Nosler JHP 1225fps - 616 ft./lbs.

    Pasted this from the Double Tap web page. Has anyone had any experience with this load?
    Yes, I've used it.

    It's a handful, no doubt. On a light pistol, it really hits the hands hard, upon recoil. Assuming it works reliably in your gun, it's probably the best cartridge I can think of for a .45ACP. Very little smoke, blast is low though depends on the length of your barrel to match its stats, with enough recoil push and "snap" to grab your attention. Extremely smooth during cycling. I can't say much beyond range experience, as I have not taken it hunting or used it for other purposes.

    Of all the cartridges I have used with 9mm and .45ACP, I can say that the DoubleTap flavors seem to be some of the smoothest and most reliable cartridges I have ever used. On a CZ P-01 9mm pistol, the 9mm JHP +P variant was utterly reliable, the best choice bar none. I wouldn't have any qualms using it in any .45ACP pistol in which I found it similarly reliable, assuming that the gun was heavy and long enough to handle the fair amount of "punch" this round has. In a 4" Wilson CQB where it's performing with flawless reliability, I would say it's probably the perfect choice. It would be mine.

    About as close to a "12 gauge" as you're likely to get on a .45ACP pistol, 12 gauge.

    Highly recommended!
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    Senior Member Array zeppelin03's Avatar
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    What difference does the bullet weight create. I got 230gr in mine. what difference does that have between 185gr

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    The lighter bullet allows the old .45 ACP's velocity to reach the levels of some of the newer or more popular cartridges. The trade-off is less penetration ability. John Browning originally created the .45 as a 200 grain round, which was upped to 230 by the military where it has rested comfortably ever since.

    Which is better? Go ask someone who's been hit by both ... if they can answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin03 View Post
    What difference does the bullet weight create. I got 230gr in mine. what difference does that have between 185gr
    A heavier bullet will produce more recoil than a lighter bullet with the same energy.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    A heavier bullet will produce more recoil than a lighter bullet with the same energy.
    And I find the exact feel of that recoil to generally be a heavier push for heavier bullets and a quicker snap for lighter bullets. It's a small difference in feel, really, though I find that the difference increases when comparing higher-energy cartridges versus lower-energy ones.
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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    I have yet to see the bullet that I "wouldn't mind" being shot with.
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    Was going to post a separate thread but maybe this will work. Which does the most damage to the gun. A heavier bullet or a lighter bullet? Just thinking basic physics ( and that's dangerous) that for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. My question is : that if I have a older gun, is it better to shoot .230 ball or a lighter round if I want to minimize recoil damage? All things equal with the 21000 psi SAMMI recommendation for a .45 Cal.
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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    <--- Not a metallurgist.

    I think the psi is by far the most critical factor.
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    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    If I carried anything chambered in .45 I would avoid all 185 gr projectiles other than the barnes all copper bullets. Light for caliber loads (115gr 9mm, 135gr .40, 185gr .45) rarely come close to the performance of their heavier peers despite what dubious values like ft lbs energy may seem to suggest.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    ... despite what dubious values like ft lbs energy may seem to suggest.
    How so? The measure of impact on the target (ft-lbs) along with the depth of penetration (inches) constitutes the two basic measurements of relative performance when comparing cartridges, doesn't it?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    That's quite a lot of energy for a .45ACP. That's getting up there in 10mm territory. I just want to see what one looks like opened up.

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    Double tap has been known to lets say stretch the results. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=535992) first one I could find in under 10 seconds. But I have read it numerous times and wont use anything they make because of this. Plus +P or +P+ is still out on debate... You have to ask yourself if you have 4 top manufactures of ammo why would they be left in the dust by 1. Double tap to me almost fits into that ninja shock ammo category...

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    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    How so? The measure of impact on the target (ft-lbs) along with the depth of penetration (inches) constitutes the two basic measurements of relative performance when comparing cartridges, doesn't it?
    Energy tells you so little about how a round will perform. A hydrashok and HST with the same weight, caliber, and velocity will have identical energy, but the HST performs significantly better. Ft/lbs also weights velocity very highly. Look at RBCD ammo, they use lightweight bullets driven to very high velocities. This gives a huge amount of energy with abysmal on target performance. I'm no terminal ballistician with access to numerous different loads and the means to test them, but people who are seem to consistently recommend heavy for weight bullets, especially in .45acp. Lighter bullets seem more apt to exhibit poor barrier performance and insufficient penetration.
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    It used to be that a handloader could carefully assemble ammunition that would handily beat the muzzle velocities of the fastest factory loads if that was the direction the handloader wished to take. That ain't necessarily so in this present age. Between Buffalo Bore's offerings and this load from Double Tap the tables have turned.

    I've attempted to build hot 185 grain loads for .45 ACP in the past but my best effort chronographed 1005 fps and was likely hard on the gun. I can see no way for a handloader to make even a nominally safe load that clocks 200 more feet-per-second than that fairly warm handloading effort. I'd love to know their secrets.

    I tend toward the heavier end of bullet weights for any given cartridge anyway but the Double Tap information posted here is interesting.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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