Anyone test a Variety of Snubnose Ammo in 4-Ply Denim?

Anyone Test a Variety of Snubnose Ammo in 4-Ply Denim?

This is a discussion on Anyone Test a Variety of Snubnose Ammo in 4-Ply Denim? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Love to see objective 4-Ply Denim tests in gel on the following self defense loads that I believe might lead the pack for 2" snubnose ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array 147 Grain's Avatar
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    Question Anyone test a Variety of Snubnose Ammo in 4-Ply Denim?

    Love to see objective 4-Ply Denim tests in gel on the following self defense loads that I believe might lead the pack for 2" snubnose revolvers:

    1. Buffalo Bore's Short Barrel Standard Pressure 158-gr. Lead Wadcutter HP (Item #20C) at 850 fps in 2" snubnose.
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=110
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_images&p=110

    2. Buffalo Bore's Short Barrel Standard Pressure 150-gr. Hardcast Wadcutter (Item #20D) at 868 fps in 2" snubnose.
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=111
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_images&p=111

    3. Speer Short Barrel 135-gr. +P Gold Dot (Item #23921) at 860 fps in 2" snubnose.
    http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm
    http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx
    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics...x?loadNo=23921

    4. Winchester Supreme Elite 130-gr. Bonded (Item #S38PDB) at about 850 fps in 2" snubnose. http://www.winchester.com/Products/h...es/S38PDB.aspx

    5. Corbon 110-gr. +P Solid Copper DPX (Item #DPX38110-20) at about 925 fps in 2" snubnose.
    http://www.shopcorbon.com/Self-Defen...20/200/Product
    Last edited by 147 Grain; November 11th, 2010 at 01:02 AM.
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I do believe Remington Golden Saber 125Gr JHP leads the pack and has the track record to prove it.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I did a test years ago, that I am going to repeat by shooting thru wooden dowels to see what bullets would plow a straight line to the aiming point. The heavier weights won hands down over lighter faster. I truly believe this is what is probable when bullets meet bone. I will set this up again, as I feel it more relevant than jello testing.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I do believe Remington Golden Saber 125Gr JHP leads the pack and has the track record to prove it.
    I use Remington Golden Saber JHP in all my concealed carry weapons. This is a fantastic self-defense cartridge!!!!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post
    I use Remington Golden Saber JHP in all my concealed carry weapons. This is a fantastic self-defense cartridge!!!!
    How do you know other than from the manufacturer, Brass Fletcher or another ballistics test. Any first hand experience with the round for SD?
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  6. #6
    Member Array 147 Grain's Avatar
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    I agree with SIGP250! As for Golden Sabers, they were designed by the same guy who developed the Ranger T line-up after he left Winchester.

    My #1 concern with using a 38 Special for self defense is penetration!!! and since velocities are low in a snubnose, a heavier projectile or tougher (BONDED) bullet is needed because penetration is king and the most important. Standard (UNbonded) Golden Sabers are like Ranger T's; they're just not good penetrators in 38 Special unless you upgrade to the BONDED version.

    Winchester's new PDX1 line-up upgrades their Ranger T bullet to BONDED status and that is why I'm interested in how their 130-gr. Bonded (Item #S38PDB) at about 850 fps in 2" snubnose performs in FBI Protocols like 4-Ply Denim or Heavy Cloth.

    http://www.winchester.com/Products/h...es/S38PDB.aspx
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I thought you folks were talking about 357 magnum not 38 special. I would not use 38 special in my snubnose for self defense when i could use 357 magnum.

    here is one I found for you


    http://ingunowners.com/forums/access...ter_denim.html

    Carry on.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    I did test some DPX through denim into wet newspaper, also through 6 layers of t shirt. They expanded pretty unevenly. Most shots only one or two segments opened, and those only partway. Wasn't real impressed, although I don't see much heavy clothes in my area except for a couple weeks a year.

    Personally, I have a huge stockpile of Nyclads in standard and in 125 and 158gr +P. I use those in most of my snubs, but you can't carry them around in speedloaders or speed / Tuff strips or the nylon wears off from friction. The Gold Saber and the DPX are awesome for spare ammo. The pointy DPX and the rounded GS feed from your loader into your cylinder like greased butter and are way too hard to get beat up bouncing around in a pocket.
    Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)

    NRA Certifed Instructor

  9. #9
    Member Array krazykeny's Avatar
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    Speer Gold dot for short barrels - It does it all

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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Just curious, why 4 layers of denim? No body wears 4 layers of denim.

  13. #13
    Member Array 147 Grain's Avatar
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    The 4 Layer Denim test protocol is basically used to force a HP bullet to clog or fail and if it can perform well in this test, it will also excel / expand in basic clothing the average person wears. This is an extreme test designed by the FBI to see if a HP acts more like FMJ (gets plugged up) or can reliably expand as a well designed HP should.
    Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.

    1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
    2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
    3. Choice of Caliber

  14. #14
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    I understand down will clod a hollow point faster than denim.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 147 Grain View Post
    The 4 Layer Denim test protocol is basically used to force a HP bullet to clog or fail and if it can perform well in this test, it will also excel / expand in basic clothing the average person wears. This is an extreme test designed by the FBI to see if a HP acts more like FMJ (gets plugged up) or can reliably expand as a well designed HP should.
    Thanks ! I assumed it was to clog the bullet but didn't know it was used by the FBI in their test. Hornady claims their new bullet won't clog and will expand everytime. They have it in 38, 110gr. +P. I have not shot any of it myself. I've been content with Gold Dots.

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