Confused by 40 vs .45 ballistcs

This is a discussion on Confused by 40 vs .45 ballistcs within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry 185 gr. .45... but only because that was the only kind of Gold Dot available. Recently, I managed to find and buy some ...

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Thread: Confused by 40 vs .45 ballistcs

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    I carry 185 gr. .45... but only because that was the only kind of Gold Dot available. Recently, I managed to find and buy some 230 gr gold dots so once I finish the 185, I'll switch over.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    What it comes down to is PERSONAL PREFERENCE ... SHOT PLACEMENT and WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH.

    I carry a 40 S&W 165 grain... I don't like the 180... The lighter faster 165 grain bullet is what i shoot best and if anyone wants to argue that with me well that would be silly.

    What I believe in is deeper penetration and since I'm in a Physics class, all the velocity I can get the better... the .45 "bigger hole theory" is not going to end a fight fast. YOU MUST BREAK THE NERVOUS SYSTEM... then it is light switch out... That can be done by breaking the spinal cord.. but does a .45 penetrate far enough? maybe so...

    I'm sticking to the .40S&W... A 9mm will penetrate deeper in a stack of phone books then a .45..(not saying that is the same as a human). Bleeding out takes to long and is to messy... the "bigger hole theory" only works if you have time.. IMO
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    What it comes down to is PERSONAL PREFERENCE ... SHOT PLACEMENT and WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH.

    I carry a 40 S&W 165 grain... I don't like the 180... The lighter faster 165 grain bullet is what i shoot best and if anyone wants to argue that with me well that would be silly.

    What I believe in is deeper penetration and since I'm in a Physics class, all the velocity I can get the better... the .45 "bigger hole theory" is not going to end a fight fast. YOU MUST BREAK THE NERVOUS SYSTEM... then it is light switch out... That can be done by breaking the spinal cord.. but does a .45 penetrate far enough? maybe so...

    I'm sticking to the .40S&W... A 9mm will penetrate deeper in a stack of phone books then a .45..(not saying that is the same as a human). Bleeding out takes to long and is to messy... the "bigger hole theory" only works if you have time.. IMO
    When it comes to penetration, most newer bullets in all major calibers are designed to penetrate to similar depths. Not hitting the CNS during a shootout is a very real possibility, even with the best marksmen. That's when the "bigger hole theory" comes into play.
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    When it comes to penetration, most newer bullets in all major calibers are designed to penetrate to similar depths. Not hitting the CNS during a shootout is a very real possibility, even with the best marksmen. That's when the "bigger hole theory" comes into play.
    That's all good and dandy... but I'll stick with higher capacity, and that means more of a chance of hitting the Central Nervous System (CNS) with that deeper penetration. And I'll save a few extra dollars doing it.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    That's all good and dandy... but I'll stick with higher capacity, and that means more of a chance of hitting the Central Nervous System (CNS) with that deeper penetration. And I'll save a few extra dollars doing it.
    LOL I'm reminded of that 1911 poster that has the caption: 45ACP because shooting twice is just silly.
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  7. #36
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    That's all good and dandy... but I'll stick with higher capacity, and that means more of a chance of hitting the Central Nervous System (CNS) with that deeper penetration. And I'll save a few extra dollars doing it.
    Same can be said of the 9mm vs. .40!
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    Same can be said of the 9mm vs. .40!
    YUP, thats why my glock 19 with the 30 round mag is AWESOME!!!
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  9. #38
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    All I know is, I like my .40 because it fits the hands perfectly and holds 13 shots vs. 9 with my 1911s that also fit perfectly. Since things are pretty close to equal in terms of shootability and power, I choose to defend my house with the .40 over the others. Anything between 9mm and .45 ACP is going to get the job done as long as you can shoot it.

  10. #39
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    more bullets

    Quote Originally Posted by centermass View Post
    When I compare the 2 rounds I compare hollowpoint to hollowpoint. Others compare capacity. The way I look at it I take the final expansion into account. Basically, We have all seen police videos of criminals on drugs that don't stop advanceing after being shot multiple times. The reason being is that it's on a psycological level. The criminal is so juiced up that they don't realize they have been shot or they are so out of it that they don't realize they are about to die and they keep on coming. Me or you being totally aware would stop because of the psycological awareness. The fear factor. Oh my god! I've just been shot! That's where basic internal damage comes into effect. The more damage that you can cause to internal organ resulting in extreme blood loss the faster the criminal goes down. No matter how juiced up he is, once he losses to much blood he's dead. You take an expanded .40 cal and an expanded .45 cal and the .45 is bigger which means there is more of a chance it's going to hit an internal organ (or do more damage to the organs it does hit)and do some damage. People talk alot about knock down power. Of all the real life footage I've seen, I've never seen someone knocked off of there feet like they are in the movies( or fly across the room). So, I'm not a big believer of knock down power. I carry the biggest round possible that can expand and cause trauma to internal organs resulting in death as fast as possible. A smaller bullet moving at a faster speed should penetrate deeper. But if it goes all of the way through without hitting major organs, will it put the bad guy down faster than a bigger, slower moving bullet that hits organs and causes blood loss?

    Most .40 cal guns can carry more ammo than most .45 cal guns, so there may be an advantage of having more bullets. More bullets= more of a chance you'll at least hit the target in an extreme situation.

    At the end of the day, I think you make a compelling argument for staying with my 40 cal, if for no other reason than magazine capacity. 16 rds gives me an edge should I ever need it. Hopefully I never will.

  11. #40
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    A 180 grn. 40 will have a higher sectional density so in theory it should penetrate deeper. And obviously its smaller so th wound channel is not as broad.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockymtnnut View Post
    A 180 grn. 40 will have a higher sectional density so in theory it should penetrate deeper. And obviously its smaller so th wound channel is not as broad.
    +1. This has more to do with penetration than does velocity. Velocity doesn't necessarily equate to deeper penetration. It depends on the bullet style. Some hollow points will open up more with higher velocity and expend its energy inside a similar or even smaller wound track.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    +1. This has more to do with penetration than does velocity. Velocity doesn't necessarily equate to deeper penetration. It depends on the bullet style. Some hollow points will open up more with higher velocity and expend its energy inside a similar or even smaller wound track.
    I think I am missing your point.

  14. #43
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    The 45 and the 40 have different bullet weights available. A 180 grn 40 is not really going to act the same way as a 185 45 at the same velocity due to differences in SD. The original 155 GRN JHP for the 40 issued to the USBP was running about 1350 FPS from Beretta 96D's, pistols did not last very long 3 to 5 thousand rounds was the average and the round was soon downloaded to 1200-1250 FPS. That is still in the 357 magnum range of power if you compare to 158 SJHP. The 135's are in about the same velocity range as the 155's but lack the penetration. I have no experience with the 165 GRN bullet in the 40 but have fired about 20,000 of the 155's.

    The 180 GRN bullets in the 40 are generally lower pressure rounds and recoil much less than the 155's in the 40. I would stick with a 230 in 45.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Honestly, whichever one you shoot quicker and more accurately should be your choice. Regardless of ballistics.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Honestly, whichever one you shoot quicker and more accurately should be your choice.
    This. ^
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