This is a discussion on Glaser Safety Slugs within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I haven't seen much discussion concerning Glasers; maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Any opinions on how they stack up in effectiveness against fast, light ...
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I haven't seen much discussion concerning Glasers; maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Any opinions on how they stack up in effectiveness against fast, light bullet JHP loads by major mfgr's?
I am concerned about maximizing my Walther PPK/S performance.
I think the use of Glasers is based on the fear of liability (over penetration). I've seen some reviews that go both ways, but you know how reviews are. I personally think they're way overpriced in a field of SD rounds that have proven reliable without the over-penetration concerns. Just my thoughts.
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone - 1978. Oh, to be young again...
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
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lacking penatration by design, you need to remember something..
example.. if any average built person is hit in the upper chest straight on, it wont be good... and it has more then enought penatration for that, but turn sidways, and it hits your bycept 1st?... it will F up your arm.. but but wont continue into the chest... thats bad...
same if you are shooting at some 600 pound gorrilla... if the Bg has 6" of fat "armor" it wont work well either..
so best way to use then is 1st 2 glaser, rest "normal" loads... in case i need the added penatration after those 2
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I wouldn't use them. No SD round should have such poor penetration. Between that and the fact that they are outrageously expensive I see no reason to keep them around. If you are to the point when you need to take shots at an aggressor you need something that will stop them, not something that will leave nasty-looking marks but cause very little real damage.
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In an apartment maybe?......
I live in an apartment and have walls that are literally thin enough to punch thru, much less a projectile that's travelling twix 850-1500fps. So, unless your apartments are unoccupied, less penetration might just be a good thing.
Perhaps it's just b/c I'm graduating from law school net month and I now see everything as having a possible litigation behind it. (Notice!!!!! This is NOT a legal opinion nor is it advice. The following statement is merely a hypothetical situation and possible result.)
Think about this. Say someone breaks in and you, justifiably fire two projectiles at said bad guy. One hits him in the head and he is DOA. The second flies past and into your apt wall, subsequently penetrating the entire wall and entering the apt next door. Unbeknownst to you, itstrikes a resident and wounds them. They recover. What happens to you?
Well, presuming allot of facts not present, you will be ok and your use of force will be ruled justified. Even your stray 2nd projectile that wounded the resident will most likely ( at least in most law) be ruled as non criminal. However you may be held civily liable - even in a castle doctrine or stand your ground state. (it would depend)
Bit even if you are cleared both in a criminal and civil sense, wouldn't it bother you and potentially haunt you that the other victim ( I say that b/c they are a victim of the perp's orig crime) could e been saved the pain and agony only if you had used a proj that would have potentiay not penetrated the apt wall? I personally would, but that's just me.
Just b/c one is not criminally or civily (sic?) liable doesn't mean it wouldn't bother you mentally. Again that's justme. And b/c of thy reason, I plan tovery shortly purchase rev pressure SXT ammo a d some of the less penetrating Glaser safety slug ammo. Or even that airfreedom round from extreme shock. I've actually seen it in action and itdoes work as claimed. Their other fang ammo or whatever it's called however, does not.
Later,
Jeffe007
They are extremely ricochet resistant & if that is a major concern then they have value.
I have used and carried Glaser's for a number of years. They are a SD round that fills a very particular need, maximum energy dump, maximum damage (they are after all a small self contained shot shell round) in places where over penetration and the danger of ricochet need to be taken into consideration.
With that being said Yes if they hit an object prior to hitting the bad guy he will be sprayed with shot or lead fragments and get really pissed off instead of being put down as needed. When I carried them full time the round in the chamber and the first round in the mag were Glaser's after that was whatever HP that I was using at the time. If the first two rounds did not penetrate then the following HP's would. I also to this day carry a mag of HP in the gun, one spare of HP and one of ball, old habits die hard.
In a shooting where the Glaser was used the officer carried his mags stacked as I did shot the back window of the car that 4 suspects were in (Note this was a long time ago and things were different then). The Glaser hit the glass and blew apart showering three of the four with shot. Lethal to any, nope but scared them enough they stopped the car and surrendered
Like any other specialty ammo you must know it's limitations and uses. Remember guys there is no one magic bullet or magic gun that works for all scenarios. Just an opinion.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. (WETSU)
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I live in an apartment building in the city with other family members. Walls are concrete, doors are paper thin, and neighbors all around me. The bad guys would have to come through a narrow hallway and are exposed. I use Glasers in 45 ACP for home defense in my situation so there is limited penetration and no ricochet. For more general self-defense, 230 gr. JHP or FMJ is my choice.
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I'll pass.
First off, the reduced penetration is not a good thing--remember, any round that will punch deeply enough to the vitals to be effective will also go through walls, plural. The converse is also true--if it won't punch through walls, it likely won't penetrate deeply enough to be effective. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Second--it'd be awfully expensive to put enough rounds through a pistol to verify that they are reliable; a friend that loaded them for HD use finally gave them a try after having them loaded in his Ruger P-series 9mm for a couple years, and found it choked on 'em...he never tried them because "they were so darned expensive"...On that note, I found the one time I gave them a try out of curiousity, that their point of impact was considerably different than regular loads--about 6" low at 7 yards (firing .38spl Glaser Blue out of a 4" GP100, compared to 158gr .38 loads). So, if you're gonna use them, make certain they work out of your pistol (which, of course, would go for any carry load...), and shoot to point of aim...
I personally feel that one is better served with a good JHP and a lot of practice putting those rounds on target; for the price of 50 rounds of Glaser, one could buy a 50 round box of premium JHP and a couple hundred rounds of FMJ practice ammo...
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
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Although overpenetration is important, it is vastly overrated! Light penetrating Glaser Safety Slugs are safe for the bad guy, but not for you and your precious family! Do not use them for SD. If you do, the perpetrator will appreciate it over the more serious stuff!
Research this and other forums and you will be surprised to findout that low recoil Federal Tru-Ball slugs penetrate about 40% less than their low recoil 00 buckshot - both with flight control wads co-leased with Hornady from Chris Billings at Choke. If you are concerned about people next door, switch to #4 buckshot or Federal LE low recoil 1-oz. slugs that are very soft and expand a lot without the typical penetration of the average slug. Source = Federal's LE Tactical Shotgun Handbook.
Many folks use Federal's Low Recoil 00 buckshot (LE132 or LE 133 at 1,145 fps) for SD inside the home and deep penetrating Brenneke Tactical Home Defense slugs (not Federal Tru-Ball) outside the home.
Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits and the base of throat.
1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits & Base of Throat
2. Heavy for Caliber Bullet Weight / Construction
3. Choice of Caliber
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Glasers come from a time when "Over penetration" was a big bug a boo in LE circles. LE agencies were absolutely convinced ( usually by lawyers) that over penetration was a serious danger in officer involved shootings. Consequently LE demanded ammo that would not over penetrate and the ammo manufacturers obliged. Thus you had Winchester silvertips that were touted to penetrate not much more than 6-7 inches.
The Glaser itself was originally designed with Air Marshals in mind. But the hype that surrounded it, like claims of it being so devastating and producing one shot stops and virtually 100% lethal on a torso hit. Made it popular with gun enthusiasts until the "over penetration" gremlin was laid to rest in the mid 80's in the aftermath of the Miami F.B.I. shootout.
Once upon a time I used to carry a Glaser as the round in the tube in a Sig P226. ( the old blue flat tip design). I stopped carrying them after having to actually use that round on a guy trying to kill me. It did not produce a one shot stop or prove to be lethal on a point blank torso hit. And frankly in my own view did not perform any better than what any good JHP would have.
Just my 2 cents.
Glasers are 20+ YO technology. Today it is copper HP's that make it at in some calibers at +P velocity. Read that as Cor-Bon. I have and use them in all of my carry calibers that are 9MM, 40S&W, and .45ACP. I have tested them in my guns and they work. That is all I need to know.
Keep it Covered and Ready
Blue Thunder
NRA Endowment Life
There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
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.380 Ammo is already so very anaemic, that I don't believe that Glasers are a good candidate for that caliber.Originally Posted by Shutterbug
Consider using Buffalo Bore's +P .380 load for an extra boost. Your PPK/S should be able to handle +P ammo.
See:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=129
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Yes I like them BUT only for wheel guns. My nightstand K frame is loaded with 3 Glasers and 3 Hydra Shoks. I have tested them in wheel guns and they work. Why just wheel guns? I can't afford to run 100-150 of them through a semi automatic to test functioning and that is the absolute minimum number of rounds I will test with.
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The very high cost of the Glaser ammo is certainly one of its biggest drawbacks.
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