The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense.
This is a discussion on The Myth that .380acp is ineffective for personal defense. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Amen Brother!
Originally Posted by rammerjammer
This debate gets so old and seems to be brought up at least once a week I shouldn't have ...
December 7th, 2010 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by rammerjammer
"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington
December 7th, 2010 06:43 PM
If you have to shoot someone chances are great that the one you shoot is tanked up on meth,alcohol or some other drug. They wont be in their right mind at all, if they were, you wouldn't have had to shoot them in the first place.
Do you want to engage some drug crazed junkie that is probably a felon with a marginal round? If he is on the right stuff, he probably wont even acknowledge that he has been shot if it isn't placed correctly.
It only makes sense to carry the biggest round that you can comfortably and accurately shoot. A handgun is a gamble anyway.I want the most I can get.
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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December 7th, 2010 07:15 PM
- Buffalo Bore makes several .380ACP rounds that are comparable to the lower end .38 Special rounds.
Originally Posted by Pioneer
380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N. (1150fps/ M.E. 294 ft. lbs.)
380 Auto +P Ammo - 90 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1200fps M.E. 288 ft. lbs)
- I agree, but there are some situtations that make it extremely difficult to conceal something more than a pocket pistol. A .380ACP is definitely not my first choice, but it's definitely better than nothing.
In my opinion, the .380 is in the "better than nothing" category.
December 7th, 2010 07:18 PM
Guys and Gals; if I want to stop a charging rino I want a LARGE BORE RIFLE (300# Drug crazed/dude charging rino same difference!) I can not conceal a large bore rifle so I carry a 9mm handgun because that is what I could find when I start CC. I would carry a 380 based on the saying better a 22 in the hand at the moment needed than a 45 in the safe at home in the same moment of need! My thought is that in most cases that charging rino will a) stop upon see the wrong end of any gun b) Stop at the first chot cause in does not like the "burning feeling" c) two to the chest and one to the head and repeat as needed!
December 7th, 2010 07:46 PM
The names Bond, James Bond.
Everyone died who he shot.
December 7th, 2010 08:09 PM
I don't care if you carry a 380 or a 22 as long as you hit a fatal spot you will be sucessful stopping the bad guy.
December 7th, 2010 08:14 PM
The latest SWAT Magazine had an article bashing the .380 calibre and the article was loaded with facinating facts and figures.
My primary carry used to be a Bersa .380, but I've recently moved (slightly) up to my Beretta 9mm. The right holster and belt made the difference.
NRA Life Member since 2010
December 7th, 2010 08:28 PM
I had always wanted the biggest caliber, the hottest load, and the best performing bullets available. Until a few years ago, nobody could shake my faith in that. However, after studying forensic reports of shootings in the real world, I have switched camps.
I will happily carry a .380 or .32. Shot placement is all that matters if you need to stop a threat NOW. That means any caliber that can penetrate enough to reach and disable the central nervous system or break major bones will work. Either of these 'marginal' calibers will do that. Any other hits may kill through blood loss, but that takes time, and many bad things can happen to you during that time.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
December 7th, 2010 08:46 PM
If only it were that easy.
Shot placement is all that matters if you need to stop a threat NOW.
Yeah, I know that everyone thinks they can place an accurate shot on a large, charging ,cussing, screaming,drugged up maniac with a large knife that wants to kill you,your wife and sell your baby on the black market for crack, but real life shootings show that it never really works out that way.
December 7th, 2010 09:56 PM
Well based on some research by a fellow named Kleck, whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you, somewhere around 75% of the people who use a gun in a self defense situation never even shoot the thing before stopping the threat. I wonder whether the bad guy checked the caliber before deciding to break off the attack? Probably not.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.www.ddchl.com
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
December 7th, 2010 10:13 PM
With .380 I think it's great if it's all you can carry. Like I said, it's better than nothing. But I'm happy with my brick of a Glock 30 stuffed IWB. With a decent capacity .45 in such a small platform, I have a hard time saying no :) For the times I must go smaller, the Kahr Mk40 still is a nice potent little .40 bullets ready to go.
Ayoob (IIRC) always said, carry the biggest gun and biggest (most powerful) caliber you feel comfortable with. And .380 is that for some people. And that's 100% ok. I can happily and comfortable carry a .45, so that's what I do :)
December 7th, 2010 10:22 PM
Scissors have killed many people...I still wouldn't carry them.
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
December 8th, 2010 08:37 AM
You sir are correct. Any projectile traveling at 800 to 900 FPS and up should be able to penetrate to the vitals and that's when the fight will end. There are better rounds that can do it in a HP design and in larger calibers sure, but to say that the .380 is lacking the ability is poppycock. It's the same size diameter as the 9mm -.357 for the most part, so the only thing it's lacking is the horsepower to drive the round in a hollow point design to the FBI's standard of 12 + inches in ballistic gel, so what; That's not to say it can't do it in certain designs, but just not consistently. My suggestion, use the flat nose FMJ and exceed the measurement by a good bit more than 12", problem solved. For the record, I'd say that far more living breathing people have been killed by FMJ's than any Hollow point out there in any configuration and for many years. If anyone can prove otherwise please do so with legitimate documentation and not hearsay and conjecture. A .380 FMJ to the brain or heart will kill ya just as dead as a HP in the same area. Dead is dead, who cares how big the wound cavity is as long as the BG is tagged and bagged.
Originally Posted by obxned
Some of what you say can and will in some cases come to pass, but as with any caliber what I have placed in bold should be reworded to say "multiple well aimed shots" and I'd say your chances have increased exponentially, therefor making the .380 a viable self defense option.
Originally Posted by GrandBob
MY advice to anyone carrying the .380 and less...... Practice controlled burst of two or three rounds to COM and to the head when you practice. The odds will greatly improve by doing so, and you can still carry that smaller more comfortable carry piece. If your firearm will handle the +p .380 stuff, the BuffaloBore 100gr Hardcast round is the way to go IMO. Best out there IMO.
December 8th, 2010 10:13 AM
I would think that most of us realize a .22 caliber round (whether JHP or FMJ) will not stop a charging full-sized assailant in their tracks, but is possible to kill them later-on, after they bleed to death; and (on point of discussion) neither is a .380 JHP round likely to stop a large, charging, thickly-clothed assailant, though a .380 FMJ might well penetrate enough to be effective, if the hit is to a vital area. There are some definite "ifs" and "mights" in these scenarios, but they are basic knowns by most any experienced self-defense studying, pistol-packer.
It is, also, generally well-known by the same shooters that a .38 and 9mm caliber (and above) round is somewhat a more efficient and effective self-defense caliber, especially in both the common .45 FMJ and JHP rounds.
It is, also, well-known (and documented) by the military and law enforcement that JHP ammunition is the safest/most effective in-close self-defense round in whatever caliber; but, no round is going to be fully effective in extreme circumstances if a vital area is not hit.
Even in the best of situations one could hope for, I would recommend multiple shots (however many deemed necessary at the time for the circumstance) to as vital an area as possible, in the distance and reflex time allowed a defender.
I have studied and taught self-defense professionally for over 50-years, and in the process of that study, have experimented with the time it takes to draw and fire on an assailant from a concealed holster before they are upon their victim.
For instance: An assailant, armed with a knife, running straight at you from 30-feet away will be upon you in approximately 1.25-seconds, faster than most of us can realize what's happening and respond/react quickly enough to draw and fire before they are upon us.
Considering this, it would benefit all of us to practice lateral (sideways/sidestepping) movements to avoid the onrush, as well-as the quickdraw; and, remember, this example is your assailant starting from 30-feet away.
Carrying a pistol does not guarantee you'll have adequate time to defend yourself...so, practice, practice, practice moving your feet, your quickdraw skills, and accurate firing from 5', 10', 15', 20', 25', 30', 40', 50', etc; and carry the most effective caliber firearm you can, loaded with the most effective round. Most of you would be astonished at how ineffective you actually are from these distances. practice with a dummy or unloaded piece when being rushed, or course...grin!
These are no-brainer decisions and easily understood, despite of and in addition to ALL of the statements made about caliber and ammo I've read on this thread, and anything less than ultimate pistol size, round, and caliber will incrementally lessen your chances of effectively defending yourself and your loved-ones...this is common-sense, regardless whatever your choice of gun and ammo might be.
Having said that, my main carry is a Ruger .45ACP, loaded with 230 Grain Federal Hydra-Shok JHP inside the waistband, and a backup Bersa Thunder .380ACP, loaded with 165 Grain Federal Hydra-Shok JHP in a shoulder sling...each with one round in the chamber and 8 in the clip; and, both guns (being single/double action w/decockers) carried with the safety off.
Hope this sheds some useful light into the discussions...
I most gratefully thank you all for the privilege of reading your thoughts and for the opportunity to share with you yours and my own experiences.
The voice of sensibility and experience.
Last edited by RW JENKINS; December 8th, 2010 at 11:23 AM.
December 8th, 2010 10:37 AM
I gotta ask.... Where did you find .380 ACP in a 165gr round?
Originally Posted by RW JENKINS
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