Which HP Rround Has Largest Expansion % Relative To Its Caliber?

This is a discussion on Which HP Rround Has Largest Expansion % Relative To Its Caliber? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Any info on which caliber, (weight included) has the largest expantion % relitive to its calliber, 9mm, .357sig, .40s&w or .45acp....

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Thread: Which HP Rround Has Largest Expansion % Relative To Its Caliber?

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    New Member Array Krusty 40's Avatar
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    Which HP Rround Has Largest Expansion % Relative To Its Caliber?

    Any info on which caliber, (weight included) has the largest expantion % relitive to its calliber, 9mm, .357sig, .40s&w or .45acp.

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    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Feel free to do the math.

    Pistol Ammunition

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    The bullet that hits closest to a vital area.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty 40 View Post
    Any info on which caliber, (weight included) has the largest expantion % relitive to its calliber, 9mm, .357sig, .40s&w or .45acp.

    What value would knowing that be, though??

    .

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    A small bullet with a big expansion percentage may not be a big as a big bullet with a small expansion percentage.

    Shoot what you shoot best; bullets on target are always more effective, regardless of caliber or bullet style, than those that are not.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Is there any energy transferred when a bullet expands?
    I guess I'm wondering if a smaller caliber that expands transfers more energy than a larger caliber that doesn't, provided they both penetrate the same amount.
    Maybe I'm getting too technical for myself, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    Is there any energy transferred when a bullet expands?
    I guess I'm wondering if a smaller caliber that expands transfers more energy than a larger caliber that doesn't, provided they both penetrate the same amount.
    Maybe I'm getting too technical for myself, lol.
    Energy is the product of mass times velocity. Any bullet that doesn't penetrate completely through the body has expended 100% of its energy, regardless of the numbers or diameter.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Member Array marionmedic's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll shake this one up and get the ol debate going.............

    I say it is the .45ACP.

    And if you use a expanding and "maleable" round like the Winchester Silvertip, there is no competition is the calibers mentioned..... the .45 wind HANDS DOWN.

    Why?
    I have SEEN the Win STHP expanded from .45 to over .79 in recovered projectiles.
    And some writeups claim .80 and greater.

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    It depends. There are literally hundreds of different HP designs, weights, velocity levels, etc out there. There is no way to make any sort of blanket statement about ALL 9mm vs ALL .40S&W vs ALL anything else...

    Just using the first picture in tokerblue's link, we see that - in this particular test, with these particular bullets - the .357 Sig had the greatest expansion relative to its original diameter (expanded diameter of 1.77 times original). And, contrary to marionmedic's claims, THAT is what was asked in the OP - not which one will be bigger by gross measurement, but which one will be bigger as compared to its original diameter...(the .45 in that particular example expanded to 1.64 times original).
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    Is there any energy transferred when a bullet expands?
    I guess I'm wondering if a smaller caliber that expands transfers more energy than a larger caliber that doesn't, provided they both penetrate the same amount.
    Maybe I'm getting too technical for myself, lol.
    I don't know the answer, but if you have ever shot an expanding hollowpoint into a jug of water, it appears that there is something going on, caused by the bullet expansion.
    I shot a FMJ from a 38 special into a row of gallon jugs of water. From 20 yards it was difficult to tell if I even hit the first jug until we saw the water dripping off the board the jugs were set on. The jugs did not move at all.
    The bullet passed through (5) one gallon jugs and into the backstop. All five jugs had entrance and exit holes approximently the same diameter as the bullet.

    Then I shot a Buffalo Bore 135 grain JHP which uses the Speer Gold Dot bullet into the same set up (new jugs).
    The round exploded the first jug, splitting the jug open on the front face from just under the neck to the start of the bottom radius (I'd say it was six inches long). The rear face had a 3 inch split in it also.
    The jug also reacted by flying up about 6 inches and falling off the board. The bullet penetrated (3) one gallon jugs. The second and third jugs had entrance and exit holes eaual to the expanded bullet. The second jug may have had a tear in the front face, I did not document this.
    It appears to me, in my limited knowledge of ballistics that the hydrostatic pressure that builds up inside the hollowpoint climbs until it exceeds the tensile strength of the bullet wall. When the wall ruptures the resulting pressure wave is like an explosion and expands out rapidly, in this case splitting the jug open.

    I don't know if there are any pictures of the permanent cavities in ballistics jell caused by FMJ ammo, but I bet they would be unimpressive.

    I am not an expert, and I didn't stay at a Holiday in last night, but I bet someone shot with a hollowpoint is going to "Feel" the bullet/pressure wave more than they would a FMJ.

    Just my opinion.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    If how big the bullet becomes after expansion is the primary concern, then you have got the cart before the horse, and should be concerned with what bullet is larger to start out with. Expansion is a desired occurence IF all things work out for the bullet to expand. There are no guarentees.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Corbon DPX solid copper projectiles, as by design to how they open up which is different in shape & size than that of lead based copper jacketed/bonded competition.

    Comparing caliber to caliber the DPX projectile typically and most consistently results in larger net expansion than competitors of a given caliber.
    Not always but typically.

    With DPX being solid copper it is a much stronger/tougher material and by that retains most if not all of it's as fired weight, where as jacket separation and/or fragmentation is a common norm toward conventional lead core projectiles which is a much softer albeit denser material..

    As an example...

    .380 ACP

    Image source - http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bersa%20Thunder.htm

    .45 ACP

    Image source - http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/...CP_1897-1.html

    9MM & .40 S&W


    Images source - http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26390

    .45 ACP

    Image source - http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm [Scroll down to middle of the overly long flat page]

    - Janq
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    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If how big the bullet becomes after expansion is the primary concern, then you have got the cart before the horse, and should be concerned with what bullet is larger to start out with. Expansion is a desired occurence IF all things work out for the bullet to expand. There are no guarentees.
    +1 that is it all in a nut shell.
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    Member Array marionmedic's Avatar
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    I think my point was MISSED entirely.

    Who cares how much a round expands if it's ending diameter is less than another.

    A .22 can expand 200% and only be a .44, and will have 1/10 the weight.

    Out of the calibers listed, the .45 is the one to choose.
    If you can get .80 to .90 with a round and retain the 200g weight, then the others pale in comparison.

    BTW - not all the +P and higher FPS ratings are a good thing.
    Sometimes BIG & SLOW works best at inflicting damage.

    I think it's funny how some folks say bigger isn't better at wounding or stopping power.
    Bet they would be the very ones to prefer a smaller needle for their IV.

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I'm no expert on this subject but as others have stated, SHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY! A magic bullet won't do any good if you miss or hit non-vital areas.

    Caliber wars get so tiring! Pick a bullet, shoot well and hope for the best.

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