Winchester Ranger 45+P

This is a discussion on Winchester Ranger 45+P within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Then I fouind this testing: Seems different for penetration from the last testing reported: 45ACP Fed HydraShok |230@ 878, 16.6" penetration, exp 0.66", 45ACP Fed ...

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Thread: Winchester Ranger 45+P

  1. #31
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    Then I fouind this testing: Seems different for penetration from the last testing reported:

    45ACP Fed HydraShok |230@ 878, 16.6" penetration, exp 0.66",
    45ACP Fed HydraShok |230@ 858, 13.7" penetration, exp 0.71",
    45ACP Win |230@ 802, 17.9" penetration,exp0.60",
    45ACP Fed HydraShok |230@ 854, 14.9" penetration,, exp 0.71"
    45ACP Rem G.S. |230@ 885, 14.1" penetration, exp 0.76",
    45ACP Win Ranger SXT |230@ 819, 13.2"penetration, exp 0.73"
    45ACP CCI/Speer GD |230@ 896, 16.0" penetration, exp 0.69",
    45ACP PMC/Eldorado SF |230@ 853,13.9"penetration , exp 0.67" ,
    45ACP Rem G.S. |230@ 871, 15.0"penetration, exp0.71",
    45ACP CCI/Speer GD |230@ 847, 13.2"penetration, exp 0.74", 45ACP Fed Hi-Shok |230@ 860, 13.8"penetration, exp0.80", 45ACP Win. B.T. |230@ 886, 11.9"penetration, exp0.77"

    The weakest penetration was 11.9 inches and the deepest was 16.6

    The average penetration for all standard HP loads listed was 13.5 inches

    Average velocity was 859.083 fps

    Average expansion for all loads was .7125 inches

    Seems like plenty of pentration for even the biggest BG's here without going to +P velocities. I don't think I want more than 13+ inches of penetration on the street myself.

    Imagine sticking a ruler through your chest front to rear and then some. Hold it up to your arm at your side and see how far it reaches into your chest cavity.

    I had to edit these numbers as I did not see one was a +p loading, sorry.

    Brownie
    Last edited by AzQkr; July 29th, 2006 at 03:22 AM.
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  3. #32
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    Based on the data published on Winchester's site, it appear that the +P version of the round (RA45TP) yeilds deeper penetration and slightly more expansion as well. Consider the denim and heavy cloth tests:

    Denim

    RA45T: 12.7" penetration/.72" expansion
    RA45TP: 15.2" penetration/.78" expansion

    Heavy Cloth

    RA45T: 12.3" penetration/.75" expansion
    RA45TP: 15.7" penetration/.78" expansion


    Here is a comparison tool for Winchester's RA45T and RA45TP loads. Select ".45 Auto 'T' series" and ".45 Auto +P 'T' series." Be sure to scroll all of the way to the right to see the complete results for a variety of barriers.

    http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce.../testing.aspx#

    Also note that the muzzle velocities for the two rounds listed in the tool appear to be incorrect.

    Per the spec sheets the correct numbers are:

    RA45T: 880 fps/ 400 fpe at the muzzle
    RA45TP: 990 fps/ 500 fpe at the muzzle

    I think the individual is going to have to decide whether the increase in recoil is worth another few hundreths of an inch in expansion and the deeper penetration.

  4. #33
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    Winchesters data for velocity and expansion is taken from test barrels.

    The data provided in the other charts was from actual field results in self defense handguns. The listed velocitites from the test barrels will be somewhat higher in both numbers due to the test barrels.

    The data from the sig220 field testing is damned close to the stated velocity from winchester. 857 vs 880 fps, with standard deviations of most ammo between rounds, thats really close.

    As for pentration variances between the two reports, I can only guess why the diparity between the tested loads. Seems every data sheet from testing produces different results with the same loads with all calibers and makers to me.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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  5. #34
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr
    Winchesters data for velocity and expansion is taken from test barrels.

    The data provided in the other charts was from actual field results in self defense handguns. The listed velocitites from the test barrels will be somewhat higher in both numbers due to the test barrels.
    I wasn't questioning the validity of your data, only providing additional data upon which an individual might make a decision. You are right about the test barrel.

    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr
    The data from the sig220 field testing is damned close to the stated velocity from winchester. 857 vs 880 fps, with standard deviations of most ammo between rounds, thats really close.
    When you consider that the P220 has a 4.4" barrel and test barrels for the .45 ACP are generally 5" and then factor in standard deviations, I would say Winchester's numbers are probably spot on.

    In reality, in makes no difference to me. Clearly the RA45T is more than capable of delivering acceptable performance and that is what I use. The only reason I might considering "upgrading" to the RA45Tp is if I thought I would be working around cars a lot.

  6. #35
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    Blackhawk6;

    I didn' take your post as questioning any data at all.

    Quite the contrary, I thought it represented two different sets of data and only suggested that it really goes to show differing testing procedures present different results.

    That varying data is presented is of interest to eveyone I think. The two sets of data I provided from two different sources showed some big differences in performance themselves.

    Another set like you provided only added to the fact that test mediums and procedures should only be used as a loose guideline at best in determining which load to carry.

    Brownie
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  7. #36
    Member Array HighVelocity's Avatar
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    I was testing different loads in my Sig P245 today and found that the Ranger +P vs non +P feels no different with the short barrel. I plan to put a few rounds over the chronograph next time I shoot outdoors.

  8. #37
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    Just ran across this site posted links from another forum.

    The Ranger standard 230 gr penetrated in calibrated gelatin the following:

    Shot 1 : Penetrated 14.0 0.031" and exited side of block. Not recovered.

    Shot 2 : Penetrated 14.6 0.031" and expanded to 0.706 0.0005" diameter.

    Shot 3 : Penetrated 14.0 0.031" and exited side of block. Recovered diameter 0.696 0.0005"

    Shot 4 : Penetrated 14.1 0.031" and expanded to 0.697 0.0005".

    Average expanded diameter was 0.700 0.0005". Average penetration was 14.2 0.031".

    SXT average impact velocity was 849 0.500 ft/sec.

    The Ranger 230+P ?

    Shot 1 penetrated 13.3 0.031 and expanded to 0.774 0.0005. Impact velocity was 891 0.500 ft/sec.

    The testing site is located here:

    http://www.brassfetcher.com/index.html

    Lots of different calibers and loads tested for everyones edification.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  9. #38
    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    does anybody have an online source for Ranger SXT's? I'm not having any luck finding any. Thanks

    BTW I'm looking for .45acp and .45+p.
    Last edited by tj1231; November 9th, 2006 at 02:18 PM. Reason: added what I'm looking for.

  10. #39
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    tj1231;

    Contact Jerry Kirkpatrick at jwkpatrick@yahoo.com, he's in Fla., has everything Glock as well as great pricing on Ranger T ammo.

    I get mine from Jerry all the time.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  11. #40
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    BTW, I saw a reference to the "Flying Ashtray". Just for the record, that term did not apply to just any .45ACP bullet, but to a specific design -- the 200gr Speer JHP, a bullet that is no longer made.

    It had such a large HP that it was used as the final rounds to check that a gun was reliable. The old saying was: 'If it can feed the Speer Flying Ashtray, it will feed anything'.


    Dead

  12. #41
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    deadmarsh,

    I still have about 300 rds or more of that stuff that is new in boxes in storage.

    Until you mentioned the flying ashtray, I forgot all about it

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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