Horandy Critical defense feed issues. - Page 3

Horandy Critical defense feed issues.

This is a discussion on Horandy Critical defense feed issues. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jjjohnson Where do you buy the HST ammo? I thought for sure I saw it on hear a couple of days ago ...

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Thread: Horandy Critical defense feed issues.

  1. #31
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjohnson View Post
    Where do you buy the HST ammo? I thought for sure I saw it on hear a couple of days ago but now I can't find it!
    Thanks
    PoliceHQ has it, but depending on the backlog you may be looking at several months before you get it. I had to wait 7 months to get .45 ACP HST from them.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    My understanding of 1911s that Ive seen is the feed ramp is a bit steeper than other pistols. I'm having problems feeding hollow points through my springfield 1911 as a whole regardless of which hollow points I've used. I've got a buddy who swears by the CD rounds and has not had a single failure with them. However he is using them in Glocks and his SIGs which allow for a much straighter shot into the chamber than the 1911s Ive seen. I do not like the idea though of relying on VOODOO magic to make a round feed in my defensive weapon, I would suggest like others have to try different defensive ammo and possibly switch.

  3. #33
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    My understanding of 1911s that Ive seen is the feed ramp is a bit steeper than other pistols. I'm having problems feeding hollow points through my springfield 1911 as a whole regardless of which hollow points I've used. I've got a buddy who swears by the CD rounds and has not had a single failure with them. However he is using them in Glocks and his SIGs which allow for a much straighter shot into the chamber than the 1911s Ive seen. I do not like the idea though of relying on VOODOO magic to make a round feed in my defensive weapon, I would suggest like others have to try different defensive ammo and possibly switch.
    The mags that came with my Springfield Mil-Spec as well as the after market 8 rounder CMC Shooting Star mags were unreliable in feeding the first hollowpoint in the magazine, additionally one of the CMC mags has a bad spring that to this day causes a Failure to Return to Battery malfunction where in every one in few rounds misses the extractor groove; it has been retired from range duty permanently.

    Frustrated with the issue I bought a Wilson 47D and a Tripp Research Cobra mag to assess each for their merits; both feed any hollowpoint flawlessly in my SA 1911. The number one reliability issue with a 1911 is the magazine followed closely by a less than satisfactorily polished feed ramp and/or an improperly tuned extractor.

    To give you an idea of what a 1911 is capable of a 1911 with a reliability job done by a competent 1911 gunsmith will feed and extract an empty casing 100% of the time.

  4. #34
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    Being new to CC I've been scouring the forums and web to learn about the various personal defense loads and came across the below caution regarding Critical Defense. You can decide if it has merit.....

    http://firearmstactical.com/tactical...06/04/main.htm

    Thanks for this discussion, it helps as I continue researching and buying various loads to do my own testing.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoB View Post
    I personally like Hornady CD Self defense ammo!

    I have it currently loaded in .45 & .44 Spl. I too, like CD's expansion properties and respect the thought of "shot placement" also, but something about this ammo has me sold.

    I quiver at the thought of being on the bad end of a CD .44 Spl (the velocity is pretty hot) slug at "coffee breath" distances!
    The advertising?

    It doesn't do anything better than HST, Gold Dot, Ranger-T, or DPX. In fact it does not penetrate as well, looks to have a relatively small expanded diameter, and has reliability issues due to the rubber plug in the nose catching the feedramp in some guns. It's a free country and all, but everyone that touts critical defense has talking points straight out of Hornady's ads, and no recourse when actual testing data is brought up.

  6. #36
    Member Array rjpkrp's Avatar
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    I carry the CD ammo in my Model 12 Airweight. It cannot handle +P ammo and there is not another standard .38spl round that looks as good on paper. Out of a 4" barrel Hornady claims 1010fps/249lbft. I will chrono it soon and display the result. I also have the .38 +P loaded in my SP101 and will chrono it there as well to see what the performance is like out of a 2.25" barrel.

    My 1911 feeds 230g Winchester JHPs just fine. I've fired 92 of them through it without a FTF or FTE. My local Wally World had them on sale so I grabbed two boxes. The other 8 rounds are currently loaded in the weapon. Not necessarily my .45 round of choice for personal defense, but they are in there, will more then likely get the job done, and I'm fairly confident it will all work correctly if called upon if needed.

  7. #37
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmcgraw View Post
    Being new to CC I've been scouring the forums and web to learn about the various personal defense loads and came across the below caution regarding Critical Defense. You can decide if it has merit.....

    http://firearmstactical.com/tactical...06/04/main.htm

    Thanks for this discussion, it helps as I continue researching and buying various loads to do my own testing.
    It really hasn't been on the street long enough to get any solid data, nor can I find any independent testing through intermediate barriers.

  8. #38
    KoB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    The advertising?

    It doesn't do anything better than HST, Gold Dot, Ranger-T, or DPX. In fact it does not penetrate as well, looks to have a relatively small expanded diameter, and has reliability issues due to the rubber plug in the nose catching the feedramp in some guns. It's a free country and all, but everyone that touts critical defense has talking points straight out of Hornady's ads, and no recourse when actual testing data is brought up.
    LMAO…

    We can sit here and debate "expansion" vs "penetration", "bonded" vs "unbonded", "light barrier" vs "heavy barrier", etc…

    Bottom line…my dime, my ammo!

    By the way, any volunteers to take a CD slug, so we can determine it's real effectiveness? Or if it meets the criteria of a
    Self-defense round?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoB View Post
    LMAO…

    We can sit here and debate "expansion" vs "penetration", "bonded" vs "unbonded", "light barrier" vs "heavy barrier", etc…

    Bottom line…my dime, my ammo!

    By the way, any volunteers to take a CD slug, so we can determine it's real effectiveness? Or if it meets the criteria of a
    Self-defense round?

    For what it's worth, my 2.25" Ruger SP101 is loaded with 125 grain CD because it's the easiest thing to get a hold of in my neck of the woods without grossly overpaying for golden saber; it will stay that way at least until the newly announced .357 Magnum loading in PDX1 is in steady supply. My two speedstrips are loaded with Winchester Super-X 158 grain JSP in case the first wave doesn't get the job done.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoB View Post
    LMAO…

    We can sit here and debate "expansion" vs "penetration", "bonded" vs "unbonded", "light barrier" vs "heavy barrier", etc…

    Bottom line…my dime, my ammo!

    By the way, any volunteers to take a CD slug, so we can determine it's real effectiveness? Or if it meets the criteria of a
    Self-defense round?
    Well there really isn't a debate since there is detailed testing of the rounds I mentioned, but none of CD.

    I don't think anyones gonna volunteer to take a round of anything. That still doesn't change the fact that "you wouldn't take a round from it!" is one of, if not THE, most imbecilic argument ever used to rationalize firearms-related purchase.

  11. #41
    Member Array rjpkrp's Avatar
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    Stephen Camp thinks its a decent ammo in standard .38spl and .380

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Camp
    I believe that Hornady has come up with some pretty darned nice standard pressure ammunition for "serious use" in 380-caliber pistols as well as .38 revolvers. I have not seen any ammunition from any maker that is more consistent and any more likely to expand under varied conditions as this.
    G&A thought it was okay too

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and Ammo
    ...Lower recoil, for ease of shooting accurately—here is where the cost comes. You can't get something for nothing, and the lower recoil is due to slightly lower velocities. Which means decreased depth of penetration. In gel tests, the Critical Defense .380 load (which has the least penetration of the Critical Defense loadings) "only" gets you nine to 10 inches of penetration. By the FBI tests, it is a failure. However, I have to ask if anyone really thinks a 10-inch puncture wound in a felon, with full bullet expansion, can be considered a failure. The 9mm load delivers 12 inches with a 115-grain bullet....
    ....Is the Critical Defense a loading that law enforcement might consider? Perhaps, in a backup gun. In a hand-to-hand struggle that gets decided by a snubbie from an ankle holster, I really don't think sheetmetal penetration will be high on the list of important attributes. However, reliable function from a pocket .380 would be. So don't expect to hear that the big police agencies in your area have switched over to Critical Defense. I would not want my duty gun to be loaded with it. But a backup gun or for off-duty carry or for the rest of us just normal daily-carry folks? You bet.


    Granted, both are informal....but you get the idea.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    Well there really isn't a debate since there is detailed testing of the rounds I mentioned, but none of CD.

    I don't think anyones gonna volunteer to take a round of anything. That still doesn't change the fact that "you wouldn't take a round from it!" is one of, if not THE, most imbecilic argument ever used to rationalize firearms-related purchase.
    I've been saying that for quite some time...I doubt anyone who used this "logic" actually thinks about it first...
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  13. #43
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    I've been poking around the Federal website. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding their new Guard Dog ammo? Also, I couldn't find anything on their hst ammo??

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjohnson View Post
    I've been poking around the Federal website. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding their new Guard Dog ammo? Also, I couldn't find anything on their hst ammo??
    Guard Dog looks like repackaged EFMJ, which has never been noted for stellar performance.

    And you'll find HST on their Law Enforcement line.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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