Horandy Critical defense feed issues.

This is a discussion on Horandy Critical defense feed issues. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My Kimbers (45acp) sometimes will not feed Hornady's Critical Defense Ammo. When I try to chamber the first round the soft tip sometimes hangs up. ...

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Thread: Horandy Critical defense feed issues.

  1. #1
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Post Horandy Critical defense feed issues.

    My Kimbers (45acp) sometimes will not feed Hornady's Critical Defense Ammo. When I try to chamber the first round the soft tip sometimes hangs up. I have had NO trouble with it feeding after the first round was manually chambered. ( shooting) Still this is my defensive load and I wanted perfect function. I have used other ammo with out issue but nothing impresses me like the features of the Critical defense line. I found a tube of dry graphite lube in the garage and dipped just the flexible part in some graphite and rubbed it around a little. ONLY on the flex tip. Now every bullet I try feeds like a charm. Solved my problem, I'm a happy camper.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    I might suggest you adopt a different group of standards to judge self defense ammunition. If you are most impressed by ammunition that does not function flawlessly in your specific handgun without a band-aid of powdered graphite your decision making process seems a bit off.

    There are several other self defense loads by other manufacturers that will function flawlessly and provide equivalent stopping power without having to count on a home remedy to do so.

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    I also bought a box of Critical defense a few weeks back but havent tried any at the range yet, I was wondering if it would fail to feed because of the rubber tip.

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    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    You know that critical defense isn't that great as far as defensive ammo goes, right? I'd much rather have ranger-t, HST, or gold dot. Add in the malfunctions and having to rub each bullet nose in a powder that could easily come off and I'd get rid of that ammo ASAP.

    ETA:
    185gr CD in gel:

    185gr CD cross sections:


    Compare to HST and it just doesn't stack up. Throw in the reliability issues and there is absolutely no reason to continue using critical defense.

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    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    NC Bullseye I get your point but I have yet to find ANY other defensive bullet that guarantees 100% expansion through clothing. So if I have missed this, please enlighten me.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    I guess my idea of self defense ammo is different that most others. I don't buy self defense ammo that will shoot through a car door like ranger or plug with fabric like a gold dot. Don't get me wrong both ranger and gold dot are great ammo but I want someting that I KNOW will expand and hence reduce the chance of overpenetration and likley increase knock down, has powder developed for short barrel guns, reduced recoil and reduces muzzle flash. If you don't like my idea... ok.
    Last edited by Timezoneguy; January 31st, 2011 at 06:10 PM.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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    Member Array trev869's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    My Kimbers (45acp) sometimes will not feed Hornady's Critical Defense Ammo. When I try to chamber the first round the soft tip sometimes hangs up. I have had NO trouble with it feeding after the first round was manually chambered. ( shooting) Still this is my defensive load and I wanted perfect function. I have used other ammo with out issue but nothing impresses me like the features of the Critical defense line. I found a tube of dry graphite lube in the garage and dipped just the flexible part in some graphite and rubbed it around a little. ONLY on the flex tip. Now every bullet I try feeds like a charm. Solved my problem, I'm a happy camper.
    My first question is, are you chambering the first round by using the slide release or giving it a quick rack back. My Kimber does not get a good drop with just using the slide release. Plus we train to never use the slide release to chamber a round. The other question is whether you are using the factory mags or high performance after market mags like Wilson Combat. Some 1911's can be very picky until you get some good mags. My last Kimber was a CDP Pro and the factory mags were horribly unreliable.

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    Member Array hihosilver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trev869 View Post
    My first question is, are you chambering the first round by using the slide release or giving it a quick rack back. My Kimber does not get a good drop with just using the slide release. Plus we train to never use the slide release to chamber a round. The other question is whether you are using the factory mags or high performance after market mags like Wilson Combat. Some 1911's can be very picky until you get some good mags. My last Kimber was a CDP Pro and the factory mags were horribly unreliable.
    what he said...if its the first round only, then its probably not getting the full force of the spring to force the round up into the chamber.
    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it ......

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    NC Bullseye I get your point but I have yet to find ANY other defensive bullet that guarantees 100% expansion through clothing. So if I have missed this, please enlighten me.
    100% Expansion is useless when the round jams and never enters the chamber to be fired. Trying to "make due" by adding lubricants to increase feed reliability is not a good idea.

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    NC Bullseye I get your point but I have yet to find ANY other defensive bullet that guarantees 100% expansion through clothing. So if I have missed this, please enlighten me.
    Hornady CD does not guarantee 100% expansion after heavy clothing; they've been shown to fail on more than one occasion.

    The only place where they have a 100% success rate is in Hornady's advertising claims.

    There are better, more proven loads out there; Texag gave several of them.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Hornady CD does not guarantee 100% expansion after heavy clothing; they've been shown to fail on more than one occasion.

    The only place where they have a 100% success rate is in Hornady's advertising claims.

    There are better, more proven loads out there; Texag gave several of them.
    I would never consider Hornady CD in any other gun except my SP101 (125 grain .357 Mag CD) due to the velocities achieved which are able to somewhat make up for its intermediate barrier penetration shortcomings in other calibers. Now before you flame me look at this.

    I could also cite a source where police using .40 S&W Gold Dots were able to penetrate auto glass and but unable to penetrate deep enough to inflict serious wounds on a perp that was not under the influence, but I'm pretty sure the content would not be permissible as it includes autopsy x-rays and morgue photos. In that instance 55 grain Hornady TAP was unable to expand and caused pass throughs and the .40 S&W failed to penetrate farther than an inch after going through auto glass, though the 72 grain TAP did inflict lethal wounds to the perp and resulted in his death.

    No defensive round is perfect, and the only way to "prove" a round is to use it. I'll stake my life on the .357 Magnum 125 grain CD as it is really shot placement that counts. Another point is that I've done something seriously wrong if I'm shooting through heavy cover and that would be when the 1911 loaded with PDX1 comes into play. Now if only Winchester would make a PDX1 .357 Magnum or if Federal would make a .357 Magnum HST...Well I can dream can't I?

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleipnir View Post
    I would never consider Hornady CD in any other gun except my SP101 (125 grain .357 Mag CD) due to the velocities achieved which are able to somewhat make up for its intermediate barrier penetration shortcomings in other calibers. Now before you flame me look at this. I could also cite a source where police using .40 S&W Gold Dots were unable to penetrate auto glass and still penetrate deep enough to inflict serious wounds on a perp that was not under the influence, but I'm pretty sure the content would not be permissible as it includes autopsy x-rays and photos. In that instance 55 grain Hornady TAP was unable to expand and caused pass throughs and the .40 S&W failed to penetrate farther than an inch after going through auto glass, though the 72 grain TAP did inflict lethal wounds to the perp and resulted in his death.

    No defensive round is perfect, and the only way to "prove" a round is to use it. I'll stake my life on the .357 Magnum 125 grain CD as it is really shot placement that counts. Another point is that I've done something seriously wrong if I'm shooting through heavy cover and that would be when the 1911 loaded with PDX1 comes into play. Now if only Winchester would make a PDX1 .357 Magnum or if Federal would make a .357 Magnum HST...Well I can dream can't I?
    Your ammo, your gun, your choice. No flaming at all.

    I think there's better choices out there, and (imho) CD is a marginal round with a slick marketing campaign behind it.

    (PS--I do believe that one of the SHOT show news blurbs from WW was .357mag PDX-1 is planned)
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  14. #13
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    PDX1 is really my preferred load, I'd love to buy some up when they come out to replace the CD in my SP101. Thanks for the info, I'll keep my eye out!

  15. #14
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Well, thanks for all your feedback. For any given cartridge you must have faith in your bullet. Either by experience, which hopefully few if any of us have in self defense shootings, by exhaustive testing ( which no one could afford and would most likley favor our favorite), by belief in advertising (best video wins) or by plain old logic and common sense (not too common) but most likely a combination of all of these factors. If you believe in it and trust it, go for it. I have.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    I guess my idea of self defense ammo is different that most others. I don't buy self defense ammo that will shoot through a car door like ranger or plug with fabric like a gold dot. Don't get me wrong both ranger and gold dot are great ammo but I want someting that I KNOW will expand and hence reduce the chance of overpenetration and likley increase knock down, has powder developed for short barrel guns, reduced recoil and reduces muzzle flash. If you don't like my idea... ok.
    Somewhere a Hornady marketing employee is reading your post and congratulating himself on a a job well done. HST, Gold Dot, and Ranger-T have all been shown in independent testing to do exactly what you state you want the round to do: expand. The only difference is they expand through heavy clothing, plywood, drywall, auto glass and even steel. Outside the lab they've all been proven in real world shootings (particularly Gold Dot). I've shot Gold Dot and Ranger-T at night and guess what? The flash suppressing powders both of these are loaded with produce no muzzle flash. Speer makes loads specifically for short barrels. Just because they don't purchase full page ads in American Rifleman doesn't mean they don't have these features.

    When you think you have it figured out better than people that test these kind of things for a living, you probably need to take a step back a re-evaluate.

    P.S. Find me ONE documented case of a JHP pistol bullet overpenetrating a person and causing damage downrange. People seem to get all worked up about overpenetration, but it doesn't seem to ever crop up in testing or real world use.

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