Performance of Federal's 40 S&W 165 grain EFMJ load in the Detroit Precinct Shootout - Page 2

Performance of Federal's 40 S&W 165 grain EFMJ load in the Detroit Precinct Shootout

This is a discussion on Performance of Federal's 40 S&W 165 grain EFMJ load in the Detroit Precinct Shootout within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It should be further noted that the US was not a signatory of the 1899 Hague Convention, but was a signatory of the 1907 Hague ...

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Thread: Performance of Federal's 40 S&W 165 grain EFMJ load in the Detroit Precinct Shootout

  1. #16
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    It should be further noted that the US was not a signatory of the 1899 Hague Convention, but was a signatory of the 1907 Hague Convention which forbade "arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering." This only limits the terms of engagement as being between established military forces of warring nations.

    Here's a bit more information: :: Ammo Oracle


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Does your local city government work differently than Detroit?

    .
    No, the system is much the same. The difference is that City Council is populated by people that can differentiate between a treaty dealing with conduct between warring nations and a police department's needs. Thankfully we carry 124, 165, or 200 gr gold dots depending on the weapon used.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I actually carry the "LEO" 9mm 124 gr +P EFMJ in my G19 and G26. (I have no use for the "civilian" 105 gr version)

    Why? No hollow cavity to get crushed, or filled with clothing fibers. Near 100% weight retention. Feeds well. Low flash. Mild recoil. Fast follow-up shots. And if it fails to expand, you still have a flat-nose bullet.

    Only problem? Federal is backordered on the stuff until May...per an email from them. Bummer.

    On the gunfight - note how many hits to the hands/arms. Very common. Have a BUG you can access with your weak/support hand.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    The difference is that City Council is populated by people that can differentiate between a treaty dealing with conduct between warring nations and a police department's needs. Thankfully we carry 124, 165, or 200 gr gold dots depending on the weapon used.
    That is the exact brand of ammo that the Detroit City Council deemed to be too inhumane and too deadly to use.

    Would your city council even want to get into micromanaging the department like this? When our local police force decided a few years ago to investigate getting Tasers, a number of folks in the community wanted to block that, and put pressure on the city council. However, the council instead decided to leave the matter to the civilian Police Commission, since they said that kind of oversight was their responsibility, not that of the city council. So the Police Commission ended up holding public hearings, and eventually supporting the department in equipping their officers with Tasers.

    .

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
    I'm glad I'm not using that ammo. I use Corbon DPX in all my guns. It works and I am a much better shot than those really bad hits. I am not going to shoot someone 5 times to take them down unless I am already harmed. Then it may take a full mag to shoot them to the ground. YMMV and MMMV. There is no reason not to go to the range and practice, and then get on a 360 Degree range for more real time work.


    ^^^^You are out of line on this one^^^^^^^^^^



    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Well, if you have seen the surveillance cam video of the shootout, which is actually quite good in quality, you will see that these officers were at quite an disadvantage. They were not alert, and the gunman got the jump on them right at the start. It put them into a difficult defensive position.

    So I would not criticize the officers too much for their shooting. They were taking fire from a pump action shotgun. Its just too bad that no one noticed that a man was entering the station with a shotgun..


    ^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Commander Davis was there on his day off, dealing with some paperwork, when the shooter burst in and began shooting.
    Davis grabbed Sgt. Satti's weapon AFTER the Sargent was shot, as Davis somehow was unarmed at the time



    Here are a couple of links for you to review and watch the vid.

    This one gives a run down on the shooter;

    Detroit Police Shooter Lamar Moore Allegedly Kept 13-Year-Old Sex Slave

    Read more: precinct shooting posts - Crimesider - CBS News
    precinct shooting posts - Crimesider - CBS News


    This is another brief article;

    Four Detroit Police Officers Shot at Precinct, Gunman Killed, Says Chief

    Four Detroit Police Officers Shot at Precinct, Gunman Killed, Says Chief - Crimesider - CBS News

    And this with the video;


    Moore's first blast took out Sgt. Ray Saati, standing next to Cmdr. Brian Davis. Both fell behind a desk as Davis, grabbing Saati's gun, stood and fired back

    From The Detroit News: Graphic video depicts Detroit precinct shooting | detnews.com | The Detroit News


    Thanks Lance for the info.

    Those guys were in a shootout for their lives, and I'm glad they prevailed.

    They were for the most part scrambling/ducking/running and shooting all at the same time.
    I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
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