Hornady Critical Defense .40 S&W 165gr FTX SIM test

Hornady Critical Defense .40 S&W 165gr FTX SIM test

This is a discussion on Hornady Critical Defense .40 S&W 165gr FTX SIM test within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Neet vid. on the Hornady Critical Defense round in the .40 cal http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoo.../8/tkOV3MJI1FU I'm looking into this round for my .45ACP though...no 230gr..... If I ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Hornady Critical Defense .40 S&W 165gr FTX SIM test

    Neet vid. on the Hornady Critical Defense round in the .40 cal

    http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoo.../8/tkOV3MJI1FU

    I'm looking into this round for my .45ACP though...no 230gr.....

    If I was carry a .380 I'd look into this round also.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Critical Defense rounds are unreliable, period.

    See this link for proven self defense rounds in every common caliber.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Critical Defense rounds are unreliable, period.
    What tests did you do in order to determine this??


    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    See this link for proven self defense rounds in every common caliber.

    The data at that link is now over 4 1/2 years old. That is years before Hornady Critical Defense first came on the market.

    .
    Last edited by LanceORYGUN; March 1st, 2011 at 08:20 AM.

  4. #4
    Member Array Dsully's Avatar
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    That's the only ammo I carry. I've shot it into phone books and water jugs and they have expanded every time. I've tested 9mm, 45 acp, 38 special and 357 magnum. All performed as expected. If you have some instances where they failed, I'd like to hear about it.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogbones View Post
    Neet vid. on the Hornady Critical Defense round in the .40 cal

    YouTube - tnoutdoors9's Channel

    I'm looking into this round for my .45ACP though...no 230gr.....

    If I was carry a .380 I'd look into this round also.
    This .40 S&W load is pretty hot. 165 grs at 1,160 fps gives 492 ft/lbs of energy.

    You really cannot ask for better bullet performance than what this video demonstrates. The images speak for themselves. Uniform expansion, no jacket separation, and good retained weight = excellent performance.









  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Frogbones:

    Here is an excellent YouTube video showing the expansion of the .45 ACP Hornady Critical Defense load. This .45 load is NOT +P, so it is not as hot as this .40 S&W load. Factory Specs are 185 gr bullet at 1,000 fps for 411 ft/lbs of energy. Those are excellent numbers for a standard pressure .45 ACP round.

    Just look at how uniform the expansion was in the bullets in this video. They look just as good, if not better, than the .40 S&W test results that you posted.






  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsully View Post
    That's the only ammo I carry. I've shot it into phone books and water jugs and they have expanded every time. I've tested 9mm, 45 acp, 38 special and 357 magnum. All performed as expected. If you have some instances where they failed, I'd like to hear about it.
    Actually, the only person that I know of that is badmouthing the Hornady Critical Defense is this obscure individual Shawn Dobson, who is hardly a credible expert, in my opinion. He has condemned the ammo based solely on Hornady's marketing brochures, and the fact that Hornady has not published any test results of shooting the ammo through barriers like car windshields, auto bodies, sheetmetal, and sheet rock walls.

    Dobson himself never even attempted to do any actual testing of the ammo himself, before publicly condemning it. His whole argument against the ammo comes across as being extremely unprofessional to me. If he is supposedly such an "expert" as he claims that he is, then why didn't he arrange to do some actual testing of the ammo ( even if very limited ) by shooting it through some of these barriers that he claims it is so important for folks to be able to shoot through?

    He considers "civilian" ammo to be a "niche" market. His experience working in law enforcement only consists of 6 years as a Reserve Police Officer. And that ended 14 years ago in 1997.

    Dobson's website is a joke in my opinion. In fact, his rant against Hornady Critical Defense is the one and only update that he has made to his website in the last 4 1/2 years.

    Besides, there are lots of people that don't agree that super deep pentration is a good idea for ammo carried by civilians. And as the above tests in .40 S&W show, the penetration of the Critical Defense through 4 layers of denim was still very substantial in the medium: a whopping 15 inches.

    That is plenty of penetration for any reasonable use.


    .

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    That is a nice spread...I just might get two boxes to see how they run in my firearm. Though I am set on my Winchester T series (reliable in my RIA compact), but doesn't mean I'm not open to somthin' else.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    I don't have much time at the moment, but here is a picture of .38 spl loads. I'll try to find ballistics on 9mm vs .40 vs .45, but I don't expect to. No one carries U.S. standard 115gr in 9mm for self defense, and the .45 critical defense is a 185gr... No real reason to carry a 185gr .45 ACP load for self defense.

    Gold Dot vs DPX vs Critical Defense (Top Row = Bare Gelatin / Bottom Row = Denim)

    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Basically, this round has largely been ignored by most due to the fact that Federal, Speer and Winchester make premium rounds that will penetrate to FBI standards, expand wider and more consistently and they cost much less per bullet. I believe Hornady sells Critical Defense rounds for $25 per 20, whereas Speer, Federal and Win sell Gold Dots, HST and Ranger-T rounds for $25-$29 per 50.

    If you want to use them, be my guest, but if you plan on spending that much money per box of 20 I'd suggest looking at any round with the Barnes DPX bullet, as it IS the best bullet on the market.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    The only problems I've read about that makes since is some FTFs on weapons with steep feed ramps. It makes since to me that the rubber tip could cause a jam of some sort if it hits the feed ramp just right.

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    Member Array Dsully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    The only problems I've read about that makes since is some FTFs on weapons with steep feed ramps. It makes since to me that the rubber tip could cause a jam of some sort if it hits the feed ramp just right.
    Now I agree with that. That is why I test fire all ammo through my carry guns before using. Yes there are plenty others that I have tried and worked but this one just happens to be the kind I carry now. I will continue to test fire it until it fails on me. When or if it does, I will move on.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Frogbones:

    Here is an excellent YouTube video showing the expansion of the .45 ACP Hornady Critical Defense load. This .45 load is NOT +P, so it is not as hot as this .40 S&W load. Factory Specs are 185 gr bullet at 1,000 fps for 411 ft/lbs of energy. Those are excellent numbers for a standard pressure .45 ACP round.

    Just look at how uniform the expansion was in the bullets in this video. They look just as good, if not better, than the .40 S&W test results that you posted.
    ANY hollowpoint is going to expand nicely when shot into water, as water doesn't compress.

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    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    The only problems I've read about that makes since is some FTFs on weapons with steep feed ramps. It makes since to me that the rubber tip could cause a jam of some sort if it hits the feed ramp just right.
    - I was looking at the Critical Defense round last year for my .380's and saw numerous reports of light strikes. I'm sure they've corrected the issue by now, but I'm going to stick with Gold Dots since they are a proven round.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    My biggest complaint here is I would prefer to have it offered in a 180 grain bullet.

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