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Hollow Points ??

18K views 20 replies 17 participants last post by  TedBeau 
#1 ·
I have a question. A long time ago I read some where. That hollow point pistol ammo was developed to stop overpenetration. (stay in the target)

So that when a LEO shot someone (big city's mostly) the bullet went into that person and stopped. Instead of going through the person and possibly hitting someone else.(very old reference)

Does anyone know where I can find that article,paper or reference???
Thank you.
 
#3 ·
The reason for hollow points is that they are more effective than round nose bullets.

Over penetration is a silly concern. People worry about a good shot overpenetrating and don't worry about all the misses that by wizzing by at full velocity.

Dr. Gary Roberts says this, and i agree with him:

Failures to stop a suspect because of under-penetration, poor bullet placement, and completely missing the target are far more significant problems than over-penetration. With shots to the center of mass, if a handgun or rifle bullet fails to have enough penetration to reach the large blood bearing vessels and organs in the torso, rapid physiological incapacitation is unlikely and an opponent may remain a lethal threat to officers and citizen bystanders. Conversely, if a bullet fired by officers completely penetrates a violent criminal and exits downrange, the bullet will certainly have had enough penetration to reach the large blood bearing vessels or organs in the torso. As a result, it is more likely to have caused sufficient hemorrhage to induce hypovolemic shock--the only reliable method of physiological incapacitation in the absence of CNS trauma.
Unfortunately, according to the available published date, the majority of shots fired in the field by U.S. LE officers miss their intended target. According to published NYPD SOP-9 data, the NYPD hit ratio by officers against perpetrators in 2000 was 12.3% of shots fired and in 2001 13.5% of shots fired. The Miami Metro-Dade County PD had hit ratios ranging between 15.4% and 30% from 1988-1994. Portland PD reported hits with 43% of shots fired at adversaries from 1984-1992, while Baltimore PD reported a 49% average hit ratio from 1989-2002.
Given that the reported averages for LE officers actually hitting the suspect ranges between 12% to 49% of shots fired, more concern should be given to the between 51-88% of shots fired by LE officers which completely MISS the intended target and immediately result in a significant threat to any person down range, rather than excessively worry about the relatively rare instance where one of the 12%-49% of shots fired actually hits the intended target and then exits the perpetrator in a fashion which still poses a hazard.
In short, the consequences of projectile under-penetration are far more likely to get officers and citizens killed than over-penetration issues.
 
#4 ·
I'm failing to see the logic behind that article. If the cops are missing 51-88% of their shots, then the last thing they would need is an overpenatrating FMJ that will penetrate that many more objects after they miss their intended target. Not to mention, JHP rounds offer significantly greater stopping power because of bullet expansion. I'm pretty new in the forums, but I have already read numerous posts and articles about this issue. Think of it this way... How many car doors will a JHP round fly through vs how many doors a FMJ or other round nose bullet travel through? Factor walls into this equation as well - Brick, wood, sheet rock, ect. This is just my opinion. If anyone has some hard facts, feel free to lead me in a different direction.
 
#8 ·
In Massad Ayoob - Shoot To Live - Gunfight Survival he talks about the need for hollow points. I would suggest that you pick it up, very good info. Dont be on the side of over penetration is silly. It could cost you if you ever have a SD shooting. Be safe.
 
#10 ·
Overpenetration silly?????

The point of this post was to get people to look up the introduction of hollow point ammo.
So that if you are ever in a court room. You or your lawyer can show that the HP was designed as a safety mesure. Not as the evil killer bullet, that all the gun rags and media have made them out to be.

As for overpenetration being a silly concern??? That is why LEO's made the switch from round nose to HP many years ago.
 
#13 ·
#19 ·
Hollowpoint vs. Full Metal Jacket

Has a test in gelatin,.

And here is a pretty good explaination describing it here;The Truth About Hollow Point Bullets | LearnAboutGuns.com*
What comes as a shock to me is that just about all the popular defensive rounds found in handguns in these links^ all penetrated over 10 inches if not more, from the .22LR-to the .44mag (which i would consider the biggest reasonable CC/OC everyday caliber)... yes that means the .25ACP and the .32.. now I know it is just ballistic gel, there are no bones, but I think 10+ inches says something.
 
#15 ·
That and reduce ricochet is pretty much why they originally gained popularity with a lot of PD's. Guantes link pretty much covers the basics. Of course since than the primary focus has been on controlled expansion to create the most effective wound cavity.
 
#16 ·
The reason for hollow points is that they are more effective than round nose bullets.

Over penetration is a silly concern. People worry about a good shot overpenetrating and don't worry about all the misses that by wizzing by at full velocity.
I beg to differ over penetration is a valid concern as are complete misses by people carrying firearms for protection,that miss or over penetrate into an innocent bystander and you will not only be looking at criminal charges,but very likely civil charges also
 
#17 ·
If I were the public affairs officer for a police department, I would be saying that we use hollow point bullets to limit penetration and thereby protect the public and our officers from shoot-throughs. This sounds a whole lot better than saying we use hollow point bullets because they cause more internal damage and enhanced bleeding and thereby better stop the bad guys. Maybe this is one reason why over penetration is hyped to such a major extent. As has been stated by some here, misses are a far greater hazard.
 
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