Talk me into a .357 SIG

This is a discussion on Talk me into a .357 SIG within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Like alot of the others stated above, get the .357 and the .40 barrel. I have a M&P Compact in .357 along with the .40 ...

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Thread: Talk me into a .357 SIG

  1. #16
    New Member Array broberts001's Avatar
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    Like alot of the others stated above, get the .357 and the .40 barrel. I have a M&P Compact in .357 along with the .40 barrel . It is my favorite round by far, the trajectory is incredibly flat. You can get 1000 rounds shipped to you door for ~ $400 of the Lawman 125gr from ammoman.com. Use the Lawman .40S&W 165gr as practice as you can pick it up for about $12 a box.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    Look here, here and here. Those are charts showing the terminal performance of every loading of the three most popular and effective bullet designs. Look at 9mm vs .357 sig and you'll see there isn't much of a difference.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say .357 sig sucks, but I don't get why you would increase ammo cost, recoil, and wear and tear on the gun while reducing capacity for no real gain.
    Your charts compare +P+ 9mm vs. a light loaded 357sig. Agreed, not much difference. Compare S.D. loads in the 357Sig to +P+ 9mm and the difference will appear.

    Most 357Sig guns are designed to fire this round, they're not over stressed like a 9mm gun is firing +P+.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndo View Post
    I am getting a P239 and and P229 SIG and I am thinking of getting one of them in 357 SIG instead of 9mm. Would it really be worth the extra ammo cost over the 9mm?
    The P229 would probably be the better candidate for the 357 SIG Recoil is pretty stout, and the P229 is the bigger and heavier gun, and thus could handle it easier. Its barrel is also a little longer, which helps to get more out of the round's high velocity ability.

    Note: If you do get the gun in .357 SIG, you can easily convert it at any time by simply buying a SIG P229 barrel in .40 S&W ( $160 ), and also buying some P229 .40 S&W mags. Replace the barrel and magazine, and you then have a pistol in .40 S&W

    .

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Your charts compare +P+ 9mm vs. a light loaded 357sig. Agreed, not much difference. Compare S.D. loads in the 357Sig to +P+ 9mm and the difference will appear.

    Most 357Sig guns are designed to fire this round, they're not over stressed like a 9mm gun is firing +P+.
    21bubba: I don't think that is at all a fair and accurate assessment of those charts that Texag posted.

    Those charts are for the three top law enforcement ammo product lines that police here in the USA use in their guns. To say that any of these 357 SIG loads are "light", or are not self-defense loads is not plausible.

    Now it is true that there are some companies like Double Tap that are taking the 357 SIG to a higher performance level with Max loads. But all of these Federal, Speer, and Winchester LE 357 Sig loads generate over 500 ft/lbs of energy. So they are all quite stout loads.

    What these charts don't show, though, is the much greater stretch cavity damage that higher velocity bullets create, compared to lower velocity bullets. That is where the 357 SIG most definitely has an advantage.
    .

  6. #20
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    The P229 would probably be the better candidate for the 357 SIG Recoil is pretty stout, and the P229 is the bigger and heavier gun, and thus could handle it easier. Its barrel is also a little longer, which helps to get more out of the round's high velocity ability.

    Note: If you do get the gun in .357 SIG, you can easily convert it at any time by simply buying a SIG P229 barrel in .40 S&W ( $160 ), and also buying some P229 .40 S&W mags. Replace the barrel and magazine, and you then have a pistol in .40 S&W

    .
    The bolded portion is not necessary. I just checked their site, and the 357/40 is the same magazine for the P229, just like it is for the smith and wesson I have.
    http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/Sho...7&productid=72
    For those not familiar with the round, .357sig is a .355 load in a .40 casing, so only the front end of the round (the part not "held onto" by the magazine) is smaller than a .40.

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  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    You are correct Steve. It is the Sig P239 that uses different mags for .40 S&W and .357 Sig, and not the Sig P229. The P229 uses the same magazine for both calibers.

    Sorry for my confusion.

    .

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    21bubba: I don't think that is at all a fair and accurate assessment of those charts that Texag posted.

    Those charts are for the three top law enforcement ammo product lines that police here in the USA use in their guns. To say that any of these 357 SIG loads are "light", or are not self-defense loads is not plausible.

    Now it is true that there are some companies like Double Tap that are taking the 357 SIG to a higher performance level with Max loads. But all of these Federal, Speer, and Winchester LE 357 Sig loads generate over 500 ft/lbs of energy. So they are all quite stout loads.

    What these charts don't show, though, is the much greater stretch cavity damage that higher velocity bullets create, compared to lower velocity bullets. That is where the 357 SIG most definitely has an advantage.
    .
    The points I was trying to make were.

    Most 357Sig ammo is not loaded to the specs for the round. There is no "Max" or +p designation for 357Sig. ammo. A gun chambered for 9mm is getting pounded shooting +p+ ammo. The Sig is not.

    The biggest advantage the 357Sig round has is barrier penetration.

    I've said this many times in the past. "Shoot the 357Sig and then get back to me about the 9mm, +p, and +p+.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array ks kid's Avatar
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    I have a 226 in 40 and bought the 357sig barrel as a swap out. It is more expensive for practice rounds, but the SD loads are the same cost as 9mm +P Gold Dots in my area. There are some good deals on the net. I was on the fence about the round also and then I took the plunge. It is a lot of fun to shoot. I say go for it!

    Buy the 229 in a 40 and get the 357 barrel from Top Gun Supplies. A barstol conversion barrel in 9mm and you can shoot all 3 from 1 platform.

  10. #24
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    TWing said it....Hand Cannon...WOW

  11. #25
    Member Array Lyndo's Avatar
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    The more im re-searching and after shooting a few models I am leaning at the .357 in the 229. I have a cousin and a brother in Law Enforcement and they are both saying it is an incredible round. Texas DPS is evidently pretty satisfied with it.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Your charts compare +P+ 9mm vs. a light loaded 357sig. Agreed, not much difference. Compare S.D. loads in the 357Sig to +P+ 9mm and the difference will appear.

    Most 357Sig guns are designed to fire this round, they're not over stressed like a 9mm gun is firing +P+.
    You must've overlooked the standard pressure 9mm 147gr loading that was present on all 3 charts. 147gr 9mm Ranger-T (bonded and non-bonded) and HST actually outperform the .357 sig loadings.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    What these charts don't show, though, is the much greater stretch cavity damage that higher velocity bullets create, compared to lower velocity bullets. That is where the 357 SIG most definitely has an advantage.
    .
    "Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding."

    Excerpt from this article by Dr. Roberts.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    You must've overlooked the standard pressure 9mm 147gr loading that was present on all 3 charts. 147gr 9mm Ranger-T (bonded and non-bonded) and HST actually outperform the .357 sig loadings.



    "Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding."

    Excerpt from this article by Dr. Roberts.
    O.K. mister chart reader do this. Go to a range. Rent two comparable pistols one chambered in 9mm and the other one chambered in 357Sig. Shoot both with lets say wwb loads and then shoot them with top of the line ammo. If you can't see, feel, and hear the difference I'll shut up about the superiority of the 357Sig.

    P.S. may I suggest a P229 as your test pistol.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    I am well aware that .357 sig has more recoil and muzzle blast. The problem is that those traits, along with the increased cost of ammo and reduced capacity, don't translate into improved terminal ballistics. You can talk about the subjective difference in feel between 9mm and .357 sig all you want, the actual data doesn't show signs of improved terminal performance.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  15. #29
    Member Array GettingOld2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    Excerpt from this article by Dr. Roberts.
    How about this one?

    rec.guns FAQ: III.C.2.q.8. FBI tests the .357SIG

    EXCERPTS:

    The April 1996 issue of Handguns has an excellent article about the FBI testing the 357SIG.

    The author compared the standard 357SIG round, Federal 125 grain JHP, with a 40S&W round, Hornady 155 grain JHP. The Sig229 was used with the 357SIG round, and a Glock 22 was used by the FBI to test the 40S&W round. Note: the Glock 22 has a barrel roughly 6/10" longer than the Sig229, so the test comparison is slightly flawed.

    Both the 357SIG and the 40S&W beat the 9mm by a wide margin, as well as having very similar exterior ballistics out to 100 yards.

    Dr Topper said, "However, for the shooter who wants it all (high energy, flat trajectory, high velocity, extreme accuracy, high firepower and deep penetration) in a single cartridge that fits in a concealable, shootable handgun, the .357SIG is just the ticket." The author then went on to say that the Federal 125 grain round might have a problem of over-penetration in certain urban environments. So the implication is to use the right kind of ammo for your intended application.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    That article makes a great case for choosing .357 sig over 9mm....15 years ago. 115 gr silvertip isn't even in the same neighborhood as the top performing 9mm loads of today.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

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