What ammo do you carry?

Ranger T-Series 9mm 127 gr. +P+ and T-Series .45 230 gr. std. press {not +P}.

"What is the diff between Ranger T's and Ranger SXT's?"

Hard to tell from Winchester's lame website but Not only is Ranger T-Series Superb CCW ammo it is wonderfully accurate.

Win's. odd website doesn't have decent photo's to compare both bullet types but the LE Ranger T-Series comes in a different box than the black box "Supreme" T-Series does.
Oddly again both are mk'd. "SXT" but they only list 147 gr. 9mm for Supreme while Ranger lists 127 +P+.

Only .45/230 +P listed is Ranger T-Series.

http://www.precisiondelta.com/winche...ertseries.html

"Winchester Ranger Talon (Ranger SXT/Black Talon) Wound Ballistics":

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm#Black-Talon


"Winchester Black Talon Revisited":

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

Gold Dot 165 gr 40 S&W, Gold Dot 135 gr 38 spl

230gr hard ball in my Colt and Federal Hydra-shok or Speer Gold-dot in my XD9mm and Ruger P97DC :kay: .Have a safe & happy new year :rock: , Lazyace1975.

147gr 9mm Winchester White Box Personal Defense in my P11.

Winchester Ranger SXT's

Skevlar, thanks for the info. I too was confused. Have you bought ammo from Precision Delta before???

In talking with my gunsmith, he told me he carried Eldorado Starfire as the gentleman who created the orig Black Talon has been contracted to make sim ammo for El Dorado. Do knwo you anything about this?

I found a few interesting quotes in the articles you linked, and by the way, thanks for sharing.

Quote:

---

An adversary whose heart has just been destroyed may not collapse for up to a dozen seconds afterward due to residual oxygenated blood remaining in his brain. He remains able to perform willful post-fatal injury activity until blood loss affects the ability of his central nervous system to function.

---

Quote:

---

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

---

~A

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Skevlar
Ranger T-Series 9mm 127 gr. +P+ and T-Series .45 230 gr. std. press {not +P}.

"What is the diff between Ranger T's and Ranger SXT's??"

Hard to tell from Winchester's lame website but Not only is Ranger T-Series Superb CCW ammo it is wonderfully accurate.

Win's. odd website doesn't have decent photo's to compare both bullet types but the LE Ranger T-Series comes in a different box than the black box "Supreme" T-Series does.
Oddly again both are mk'd. "SXT" but they only list 147 gr. 9mm for Supreme while Ranger lists 127 +P+.

Only .45/230 +P listed is Ranger T-Series.

http://www.precisiondelta.com/winche...ertseries.html

"Winchester Ranger Talon (Ranger SXT/Black Talon) Wound Ballistics":

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs2.htm#Black-Talon


"Winchester Black Talon Revisited":

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

---

How hard would it be to create that gelatin stuff they do ballistic testing with???

How many packets of knox would I have to buy???

JK. However I would love a way to determine the effectiveness of the Eldorado Starfire as I have heard good things about it.

What is this wet-phone book thing I have seen???

I also recall reading somewhere about a person lining up milk jugs full of water and firing a round into them to determine penetration and expansion. Is this a viable test??? I am perplexed becasue the body is primarily water.

~A

165 gr. Remington Golden Sabers .40 cal

Quote:

---

Originally posted by APachon
What is the diff between Ranger T's and Ranger SXT's???

~A

---

Winchester started with the "Black Talon" ammo. After it became "evil", and civilians (sheep) were scared of it, and its "cutting pedals", Winny basically just removed the black Lublox coating on the bullet. This was the "SXT" (supreme expansion technology). This ammo is VERY accurate in most .45's, and average in 9's and 40's, from what I understand.

Ranger T's are the next generation of SXTs. Mild change in powder (IIRC), and a little tweaking on the bullet. About avg accuracy in 45 for me. They still have the evil "Cutting Pedals" of the original BT's, but don't tell anyone... :rock:

And no, gunshow commandos, Black Talons are not worth $35-$50 a 25rd. box. I hate when people are taken advantage of...

Oh, despite what you may have been told, Ranger T ammo is legal for civillians to own. The wording on the box scares some folks, I guess. (And it is not worth $50/box either)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by APachon

What is this wet-phone book thing I have seen???

~A

---

I did the wet phonebook thing once. It actually worked! I got 16-18" stack of books, soaked them in the tub, and built a small rack for them with firewood. Just prop them against something, all in a row, facing foward.

I shot a .40, 180 gr. Win. "Subsonic" (discontinued now, I think) 1/3 of the way up. Disappointed with the expansion, I put a Black Talon into the middle.

Friggin'sweet! I still have the BT, perfectly expanded, blades out and everything. Had it about 8 years now, as it is fun to see people's reactions to the "evil" bullet.

FWIW, I wouldn't trust the results as scientific, but it can be a 10 on the cool factor anyday!

Back in the day, I remember reading about hunters testing rounds by shooting into wet newspapers with hi powered rifles. I wonder how thick you'd need to go with that stuff? Hmmmmm... Might be time to add an expanded .45 Ranger-T to my bullet collection :eureka:

SS192 5.7x28 JHP
165 gr. Cor-Bon PowR Ball 45 ACP
140 gr. Winchester Silvertip .357 magnum

Depends on what I carry on any given day. Usually one of the three above, but if I feeling nostalgic I will carry 200 gr. Cor-Bon 44 special in my 3" S&W 696.

MadDog :rock:

Remington Golden Sabre 124 gr. +P

9mmP,Blackhills 115gr P
gold dots

38spl,Blackhills 125gr +P
gold dots

357mag,Pmc 150gr starfires

44spl,Speer 200gr gold dots

45 colt,Speer 250gr gold dots

Another cool test media is duct seal...an oily clay like product used for sealing H/AC ducting. Get about 25-30# and mold into a big ball, it can be used at room temp but is best if put in the oven and heated to about 100 degrees (use a meat thermometer to check core temp, don’t let the wife catch you). Not only can you check expansion but you can carefully roll the ball over and pour plaster of paris in the entry hole and make a cast of the wound cavity, when I was younger a buddy and I had a wall in his parents basement lined with wound molds (his mom made us buy our own thermometer).

You can buy ballistic gelatin, (it has been a while since I looked it up) but it is pretty hard to get the laboratory consistency at home from what I read. Another media I have used to test the expansion of bullets is a 30 gallon drum (5 gal. bucket may work for all but the most powerful rounds) full of oil dry (kitty litter), if a bullet will expand in that it is pretty sure it will expand in a body. At the time I was mostly a .357 man and the only bullet that expanded every time was the Remington 125 gr simi-jacketed hollow point. The problem with most do-it-yourself testing media is that it is too stiff, offers too much resistance and all most anything will expand in them, I would like to test some of these newer bullets in the oil dry, if they will expand in that I would bet on them expanding in a body.

My carry ammo is Federal 124 gr. EFMJ.