.40 cal Bullet for Personal Defense
This is a discussion on .40 cal Bullet for Personal Defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I hate .40s but if you are going with the .40, I would go with the Speer gold dot 180 gn. FOr that bullet, the ...
April 18th, 2011 02:48 AM
I hate .40s but if you are going with the .40, I would go with the Speer gold dot 180 gn. FOr that bullet, the heaver, the better.
P938 9mm Smith and Wesson:
Sigma SW9VE 9mm
April 18th, 2011 04:45 AM
As a general rule, I always go on the heavier side in bullet weight for my full size handguns. If I'm buying for my CC guns with the smaller barrel lengths, I opt for the lighter ones just to bring the bullets FPS numbers back up up to compensate for the shorter barrel. I run the 155gr Speer GD in my Kahr PM40 and have no doubts about it's ability to stop the BG, but like it's been mentioned before. The placement for said bullet is going to make all the difference in the world.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." — Thomas Jefferson
April 18th, 2011 08:23 PM
I use Hornady Critical Defense in my G27. Never had a bad round to date (over 150 put through it).
April 19th, 2011 02:21 AM
Well, maybe I do need to eat my earlier words about this. Here is an interesting comparative test done shooting different .45 ACP loads into jugs of water. Both the 165 gr and 185 gr traditional hollowpoint loads disintegrated and fragmented. All of the heavier bullets, though, held together.
This chart is most interesting to look at. The Federal HST LE ammo's performance does look most impressive.
Here is the video to check out:
April 19th, 2011 02:34 AM
Here is another test video comparing .45 ACP loads: High speed Corbon Tradition JHP vs Federal HST heavy bullet:
I do know that Corbon's newer DPX ammo has developed a following, that that their loads using the lead free DPX bullets are staying together and penetrating deep.
April 19th, 2011 05:36 AM
Thanks for the links Lance I'm liking the other videos from that user
April 19th, 2011 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by Chad Rogers
Do dead dirtbags get to vote?
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
April 19th, 2011 12:35 PM
I say shot placement is key...
- know the differencemartyr
is a fancy name for crappy fighterYou have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
April 21st, 2011 06:01 PM
There is no majic bullet and people are not bullet proof. Pick one of the major brands / lines that shoot great out of your gun and rock on.
April 21st, 2011 06:29 PM
I do not know what article or info you are reffering to, but here is an article of an officer having a shoot out with a motorist.
It primarily illustrates that even when good solid hits are made, you just do not know how things will go, because of the multitude of variables in the specific incident/shooting.
3} Mindset of intended target. ( are they under the influence of something, OR are they the type who has an extremely high tolerance far pain, etc,,,,,,,)
4) where they are actually shot, ( where and how far did the bullets go, did they impact a critical part of the CNS, or organ, or did the bullet just come close?)
Lots to think about??, especially when deciding on what caliber to carry, and how many rounds you want that firearm to hold.
Crazy how being shot 22 times with a .40 cal. , and not succumbing as fast as one would think a NORMAL person would.
Equally crazy how someone else will fall down and cry uncle after being shot with a mousegun..
Link here: Officer Down: The Peter Soulis Incident - Below 100 - LawOfficer.com
Lengthy article , but very interesting.
Excerpt from article here:
Palmer took an astonishing 22 hits, seventeen of which were to center mass, before succumbing to his wounds, and Officer Soulis was shot four times without suffering any serious adverse effects on his performance. These facts point out why it is so vitally important to understand that bullets don’t always stop their target, even when they strike vital areas in large numbers. While we it is important to be confidence in our firearms and our proficiency in their use, we must accept the fact that they may not incapacitate an assailant as quickly as we would like. We must be prepared to keep shooting until the threat is terminated, move to another location, go for another weapon, or otherwise adapt. Be ready to beat him over the head with your empty gun, gouge his eyes out, or even thrash his throat with your patrol knife, if necessary.
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357SIG, 2340Sigpro .357SIG
April 22nd, 2011 10:15 AM
What is PDX?
Originally Posted by RebelRabbi
April 23rd, 2011 12:02 AM
I am in Cor-Bon's DPX all copper bullet area in all calibers. They work and that is what I stake my life on also with good "Shoot them to the Ground" pistol class training from the last 4 Gun-Fighting Classes I have taken in the last year. Good bullets in good Glocks get the job done with proper training and practice.
If only LIFE could be a little more tender and ART a little more robust. Alan Rickman
Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
NRA Endowment Life
There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
Blue Thunder, I smell Victory in the Morning!
April 23rd, 2011 03:30 AM
Well, it turns out SIGguy, that are you are absolutely right about this shooting. You have hit the nail squarely on the head here.
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
I went and looked up the May American Handgunner issue, to see if a full account of Ayoob's story had been given here. The bottom line: It wasn't. A lot of important information in Ayoob's account was left out of the post that was made here. In fact, so much key information was left out of the re-telling of the story here, that it really dramatically changed the account.
Officer Steve Lang of the Murietta, GA police department shot it out with a criminal named Toan Quac Van on Oct 5, 2001. Van was a hardened criminal. A powerfully built man who brutally ran his own street gang that preyed on other Asian immigrants. He had his confrontation with officer Lang when he and other members of his gang went to burglarize the home of a woman, who they knew keep her savings hidden insider her own home. The two men were only six feet from each other during the entire shootout.
Van fired a .45 caliber Sig P220 nine times at Lang, striking him only a single time, in his right thigh. Lang fired a total of 14 rounds from his Glock 21 at Van. Of these 14 shots, 7 completely missed, and 7 struck Van. Now on first glance, one might then wonder, how could Van have survived 7 shots from a .45? Well, the answer is just what you figured SigGuy229: Shot placement.
Of the 7 shots that hit Van, two were lower leg hits. Two more were thigh hits. One hit Van in the forearm, and another one nicked his pelvis. Only one single shot was well placed, and struck Van in the chest. That, SIGguy229, is the real story here. Only 1 of the 7 hits was well placed.
So in light of all of this additional information, which had been conveniently omitted from the earlier account of this Ayoob report, did the Corbon 185 gr +P JHP load really do that bad a job?
I honestly don't think that one can criticize the ammo here. When Lang saw Van fall to the ground, he noted that Van was "face down in the driveway motionless, Lang stopped shooting at last. He can see RIVERS of blood pouring from beneth the man's body, running switfly down the driveway to the gutter."
That detail was also left out of the earlier account of Ayoob's report.
Ayoob went on to report that Van "had bled out from his wounds, but massive transfusions and brilliant surgery had saved his life." Ayoob credits the high quality of the emergency-trauma medicine available in Riverside County California with the fact that Van managed to survive the shooting. And remember, only one single shot had hit a vital area.
So blame the high velocity Corbon load here for this outcome? No, I don't think so everyone.
The real bottom line to this story is this: Officer Lang only managed one single good hit on Van out of the 14 rounds that he fired at him from a range of only 6 ft. In my opinion, Lang is very lucky to be alive today. While his Corbon ammo may not have killed Van, it certainly disabled him and ended the threat against Lang's life. And it did enough damage to Van that it prevented him from hitting Lang more than one single time. And the massive wounds caused by the Corbon ammo to Van's limbs came extremely close to bleeding him out.
Shot placement is the true moral of this story, NOT ammo selection.
So as the iconic radioman Paul Harvey used to say: "AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".
May 8th, 2011 12:01 AM
I run Federal’s Personal Defense 180gr JHP through my G23 for defense…..shot placement is critical.
GLOCK 34, 17C, 21
USPSA Production Division Competitor
May 8th, 2011 12:07 AM
Winchester PDX-1. That's what I use in my CCW.
Originally Posted by Ky Bob
A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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