.40 cal Bullet for Personal Defense

This is a discussion on .40 cal Bullet for Personal Defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TedBeau Is the "Short Barrel" load marketing hype? Maybe, Little of both, they redesigned the holllowpoint to expand better at lower velocity ...

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Thread: .40 cal Bullet for Personal Defense

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Is the "Short Barrel" load marketing hype? Maybe,
    Little of both, they redesigned the holllowpoint to expand better at lower velocity due to the shorter barrel.

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  3. #77
    New Member Array minority's Avatar
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    If you guys are interested i found good cheap ammo at ammnuitionstore.com

  4. #78
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    If you guys are interested i found good cheap ammo at ammnuitionstore.com
    If anyone is looking for 180gr HST, Ammunition to Go has a federal agency overrun lot in stock. It's designated XM40HC, and the sole difference is it is brass plated rather than nickel plated.

    To make sure, I e-mailed Federal, and here was their response:

    From: Prodserv <Prodserv@ATK.COM>
    To: [Removed]
    Date: June 09, 2011 853 AM

    Greetings,

    The XM40HC was designed for a government agency and is a production
    overrun made available for public purchase. The XM40HC is loaded with
    our 180gr HST bullet and produces a muzzle velocity of 1015fps and
    muzzle energy of 410ft-lbs. It is not loaded hotter and is brass cased
    not nickel plated.

    Thank you


    It's also cheaper than standard 180gr HST; I paid $29.95 per 50 for the standard P40HST1 180gr, and the XM40HC 180gr costs $21.95 per 50. (For comparison, the cheapest I can find Winchester PDX1 180gr for is $20.95 per 20!)

    Have a good day!
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  5. #79
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Out of my Sig 229 I use Remington

  6. #80
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Out of my Sig 229 I use what the border patrol used- Remington Express 155gr.

  7. #81
    New Member Array mcubed's Avatar
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    Hornady

    I just read the thread on personal protection ammunition, 40 cal for me, but no mention of Hornady line. Why is that? I am not a gun expert so know little about thos stuff. But I do have my CCW permit and want to have a very good and reliable bullet for my weapon. What I have read about the Critical Defense and now the Critical Duty ammo sounds pretty amazing.

    Thanks for any educated input.

  8. #82
    Ex Member Array bmglock23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevyguy85 View Post
    My .40 has 180 grn golden sabers loaded into it. Even in an imperfect world you can still carry that .44 mag you know :-D As far as light/fast vs heavy/slow I choose heavy/slow every time no real reasoning behind it other than I prefer mass over velocity and with things other than bullets too just take my truck as a prime example.
    I'll take mass and velocity everytime. Mass x Velocity = Momentum, and Mo's what it's all about. Do you think it would be easier to stop a Mack truck going 5 mph or a Volkwagen Rabbit going 200 mph? One's worthless without the other.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmglock23 View Post
    I'll take mass and velocity everytime. Mass x Velocity = Momentum, and Mo's what it's all about. Do you think it would be easier to stop a Mack truck going 5 mph or a Volkwagen Rabbit going 200 mph? One's worthless without the other.
    Could not say it any clearer...well done Sir.
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  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    I don't shoot the 40, but am an engineer and would like to address the Physics of the lighter/faster vs, heavier/slower bullet mentality.
    From a physics point of view, the lighter & faster bullet wins in both the momentum and energy categories.
    Momentum is defined as Mass X Velocity
    Kinetic Energy is defined as 1/2 X Mass X Velocity^2 (squared).
    The calculations below don't have units associated with them, but show the relative difference between the 3 bullets. I got the data from Wikipedia.

    .................................................. ....Mass (gr)..........Vel (ft/s)........Momentum..........Energy
    Double Tap............Gold Dot JHP..........155..................1275............ .197625..............125985937
    Remington.............Golden Saber JHP...165..................1150.............189750 ..............109106250
    Winchester.............Ranger SXT...........180..................990............ ..178200...............88209000

    With that said, I don't recommend any round over another, except for make sure it runs flawless in your gun.
    My purpose in this post, is to show that the lighter faster round will always have more momentum and Energy than a corresponding heaver faster round.
    Disclaimer: Obviously, this does not take into account many other factors, ie. bullet expansion, shot placement, clothing on the perp, bone vs flesh, etc, which should be weighed when making a decision as to which SD ammo to carry.

    Personally - My XD9 is loaded w/ 115 grain FMJ target rounds. They go bang every time. I'm sure better ammo will too, but I haven't tested them yet.
    Equation solver can be found at

    Kinetic Energy Equations Formulas Calculator

    The foot pound of energy is the usual measure of energy for ballistic performance and in the case of the last example, entering the data indicates that the 180 grain bullet at 990 ft per second produces 391.6 pounds of Muzzle Energy.

    Since shot placement with adequate penetration solves human interaction problems virtually any decent 180 grain or 155/165 grain bullet should do the job.

    Morale of the story: shoot what cycles reliably, shoot what you can control and practice with that ammo.

    Federal 180 HST's work well check youtube for some ballistic comparisons. Plenty of decent ammo available.

    Good Luck
    You can get a lot with a smile but you can get a lot more with a smile and a gun...Al Capone

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  11. #85
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    I'm good to go. I have my SR40 loaded with 155 grain Winchester Silvertips!
    1205 FPS
    500 FPE

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Well, maybe I do need to eat my earlier words about this. Here is an interesting comparative test done shooting different .45 ACP loads into jugs of water. Both the 165 gr and 185 gr traditional hollowpoint loads disintegrated and fragmented. All of the heavier bullets, though, held together.

    This chart is most interesting to look at. The Federal HST LE ammo's performance does look most impressive.

    Here is the video to check out:

    The video is interesting, but I noticed that the 200 grain Speer gold dots held together quite well also. I personally am a fan of the Gold Dots, which is why I carry them in my Glock 27.

    I also stick with the heavier bullets so I carry the 180 grain gold dots.

    I have an opinion on the bullets not holding together also. Someone pointed out that it appears that the heavier bullets hold together better. This is probably exactly because they are impacting the target, (water jug) at a slower speed than the lighter bullets. I theorize that if you managed to launch the heavy bullet at the same speed into a water jug, it also would come apart.

    That being said I prefer the heavy bullet more for penetration than mass retention. It's still pretty much accepted that heavier bullets penetrate deeper when they are going the maximum speed allowed by the physics of the gun/barrel pressure within safe loading practices.

    I could also make a slight argument for having a bullet fragment. Think shotgun loads. Would you rather have a single hole that passes through the bad guy but misses any vital organs, or a handfull of shrapnel that tears up his lungs and heart? That one piece of jacket could just be the one that takes out an artery.

  13. #87
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    I am no expert either by any means but I carry Hornandy Critical Duty these days. I purchase them online at ammunition to go. IMHO that is.
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    Kahr CM9, Beretta PX4 SC .40, Ruger LCP/LM, Dan Wesson .357, Beretta 21A .22, Four Aces .22, H&R .22, Marlin .22 rifle and Remington 12 gauge.

  14. #88
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    I"m in the "heavy for caliber club" as well.

  15. #89
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    Didn't I just see a thread about a 92yo killing an intruder with a .22LR? I'm not sayin'...I'm just sayin'
    Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong..

  16. #90
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    I saw that story. I have chosen the Corbon 135 grain .40S&W round at 1325fps as my carry load.
    I guess I now have a .40 cal magnum?!

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