what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo? - Page 3

what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo?

This is a discussion on what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Exsimguy1 I am sure this will bring about a multitude of flames, but here goes. First of all, I believe there have ...

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Thread: what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo?

  1. #31
    Member Array nick060200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exsimguy1 View Post
    I am sure this will bring about a multitude of flames, but here goes.
    First of all, I believe there have been great strides in bullet technology, and it is not all hype.
    But I believe marketing and psychological "leading" has taken the place of marksmanship and confidence. I believe some people rely on their choice of "Magic Bullet" enough that if they ran out and had to use "Ball", they would feel inadequate and inferior, and probably lose the fight. Discussions are great and a lot can be learned from them. I just don't believe we should lose sight of the fact that the gunman wins the fight, not some "magic bullet". I am not the best shot in the world, but I maintain the premise that if I do my part, my gun works, and the round in question goes "bang" correctly, I can persevere.

    I do not have a problem carrying ball, LSWC, HP, FP, or a .22 for that matter. I may not be armed for all situations, but I AM armed and a force to be reckoned with.

    The OP asked for thoughts, there they are,

    Terry

    Let the flames begin........
    you can't argue that some rounds get the job done better than others.........but yes we all need the gun fighter/combat mindset if the crap hits the fan. and any weapon is better than no weapon......and one can argue that the mind is the greatest weapon.
    There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.


  2. #32
    CL
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    Well, yes and no... I agree with you that a competant shooter will be able to take a bad guy down with HPs or FMJs, cause a lot of it is shot placement. You can shoot someone in the arm with a hollow point and they can still come at ya just like they would if you shot them with FMJs.

    However, something to consider when choosing ammunition in a Self Defense gun is something thats gonna stop in your target. If you find yourself in a situation where you have to pull the trigger, you dont want that bullet passing through the target and hitting an innocent civilian. You wont be punished for protecting yourself from the bad guy, but you will be punished for harming/killing an innocent bystander.

    Just something to consider.
    Oreste likes this.

  3. #33
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    Best 9mm defense ammo. Hmmm sell the 9mm and get a 45

  4. #34
    Member Array Exsimguy1's Avatar
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    What I was saying was to not get hung up on things that would keep you from doing what you need to do when you need to do it. This would include thinking a "non magic bullet" will fail to do the job, or that only a "magic bullet" will not pass through the bad guy at the most inopportune time. Penetration, expansion, complete energy dump, or any of the other buzz words, can get you killed if you have doubts about what you need to do when it's required. We would all like to think we have a clear shot, with no possible collateral targets behind, but that is as guaranteed as anything else in life. Don't get hung up on such things as, "I can't possibly shoot through this guy, because my bullet maker said so". Basics get it done.

    Terry

  5. #35
    sgb
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    OD*, Cuda66 and snakyjake like this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  6. #36
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    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  7. #37
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    I did the water jug test filled with wet newspaper and 4 layers of denim.

    I tested Gold dot 124 +P HP both regular and short barrel

    I tested HSTs at 147

    I tested Corbon DPX 115g +p

    The Corbon beat the other 3 with 15 inch penetration and almost 3/4 inch expansion.

    The HSTs were very close second

    I used to carry Gold-dots....... I now carry Corbon DPX

    Kahr K-9

  8. #38
    Member Array Walk Soft's Avatar
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    1.Hornaday Critical Defense 115 gr. FTX 2.Corbon 115 gr.DPX+p 3.Hornaday Custom 124 gr.XTP 4.Gold Dot 124 gr.GDHP I load my bullets in a magazine in this order,123412341234

  9. #39
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    Cor-Bon 115 Gr DPX +P in 9MM. Just got my hands on some 45ACP 230GR +P ammo now testing it. I have lots of Cor-Bon 185Gr +P 45ACP ammo. More later...
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
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  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    While I find personal opinions on the matter to be extremely subjective, here's my take:

    9x19mm Parabellum

    Practice round - Winchester (whitebox or Ranger) NATO 124 gr FMJ - Glock 17 (4.49" barrel)
    Practice round - Winchester Ranger 147 gr FMJ - Kel-Tec PF-9 (3.1" barrel)

    Self-defense round - Winchester Ranger +P+ 127 gr T-series JHP - the Glock
    Self-defense round - Winchester Ranger 147 gr T-series JHP - the Kel-Tec

    All rounds perform flawlessly through their respective pistols with one caveat: I've had maybe 1 FMJ falure-to-eject per 1,000 rounds from the Kel-tec, possibly due to limp-wristing it.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooxlinusxoo View Post
    I believe that has to do with velocity in relation to expansion. The heavier loads are typically slower, resulting in less consistent expansion. I do, however, agree that the technology in the hollow point design has more than caught up to negate that factor.
    Almost always the opposite is true; heavier loads tend to expand much more consistently than lighter loads.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    And to add to the discussion, it has always been and will likely always be about shot placement. That being said, I carry Federal Tactical HST 147gr +P in my P30, and I would only substitute this load for the standard Tactical HST 147gr load, and any proven load using the 115gr DPX bullet. I need to add that I'd only substitute the loads if it was absolutely necessary. I don't see myself carrying anything other than HST 147gr +P anytime in the near future.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    I did the water jug test filled with wet newspaper and 4 layers of denim.

    I tested Gold dot 124 +P HP both regular and short barrel

    I tested HSTs at 147

    I tested Corbon DPX 115g +p

    The Corbon beat the other 3 with 15 inch penetration and almost 3/4 inch expansion.

    The HSTs were very close second

    I used to carry Gold-dots....... I now carry Corbon DPX

    Kahr K-9

    The testing of the DPX that I've seen have been impressive - just like your observations.

    A couple of things stopped me from using them:

    First and foremost, I like to "standardize" my stuff - all of my 9mms get fed the same. :) Less chance of a stupid error on my part. :) With that in-mind, my SR9c doesn't feed the DPX with any semblance of reliability.

    Second, in my shorter-barrel pistols, the DPX makes for a noticeably larger muzzle blast/flash.

    Last is availability/cost. Although to some extent this isn't much of an issue for me (i.e. I tend to mail-order in-bulk, and I also run a budget reasonably well), when compared to others available, the DPX drops down a rung, again.

    Now, like ArkhmAsylm said, that's just my personal opinion/preference - based on my own unique needs. YMMV. :)

    And in all honesty, I think that the simple fact that the DPX made Dr. Roberts' list makes the round itself more than good enough for me, in terms of solely its terminal ballistics.

  14. #44
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    115gr DPX in R9S
    handload 124 Hornady XT and hard cast 124
    mostly shoot and carry a 45
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  15. #45
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    Progress & Criticism by Evan Marshall
    I want to let people know how much I have appreciated the comments I've received over the last few months. I need to apologize for my slow response in many cases, but I'm recovering from a severe leg infection that has slowed me considerably down. If you have questions or comments feel free to direct them to this web site.
    The one thing I've been disappointed with is the feeble attacks by those individuals from the wrong side of the tracks. Their "research" has involved efforts such as calling the Homicide Section of the Detroit Police Department and asking the individual who answered if they knew Evan Marshall. When that unknown individual responded that he had never heard of me, they considered that "proof" that I had never worked there. The problem with this simple-minded approach is that any number of readers, editors, other writers, and friends had called me there on a number of occasions. Additionally, there are a number of files there with my name on them as the officer in charge.
    Another individual from the wrong side of the tracks wrote a critical review of HSP. In it he listed all my criteria for including my shooting in my statistical base and then started to dispute some Glaser shootings. This is at best sloppy and at worst deceptive. Readers can search HSP&SS and not find a single Glaser or Mag Safe incident, which included the actual shooting database. One of the wrong side of the tracks gang saw me sitting in the Cor Bon booth at a Shot Show years ago and took that as proof that I was a paid consultant for Cor Bon. I reserve the right to visit with friends and if this same person had followed me, he would surmised I was also a paid consultant for Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc. Besides, I'm curious why that when the gang from the wrong side of the tracks do consulting work it's an honorable effort, but the thought of me doing it compromises my objectivity and in their eyes destroys my credibility. Again, if this is best they can do I'm not impressed.
    I find it curious that they constantly whine that nobody has seen my database. What they are really saying is they haven't. A number of years ago I got a letter from one of the lads from the wrong side of the tracks saying that they thought my shooting results for 9MM 115gr jhp +P+ were fraudulent based on the fact they would not penetrate 12" in their beloved 10% gelatin. When I sent this individual 10 autopsy reports where these loads had averaged between 16-18" penetration in people, the response was to ignore it. I especially find the complaint about not publishing the sources for the data curious, since when one of their own was collecting data on actual shootings for a police publication, the "what's the source for this data crowd" were strangely silent. I guess it depends on agendas not the search for the truth.
    Additionally, there have been individuals who have sent e-mail to the various servers claiming to be me and asking that this web page be removed from their directory. Such individuals are the worst kind of cowards. If this is as fraudulent as they claim it is they should be anxious to see it available as it should collapse like a house of cards.
    A special thanks to a select group of people around the world know informally as "Evans Marshal's." These individuals have supplied data at great personal risk and I deeply appreciate their efforts.
    The people from the wrong side of the tracks will be horrified to know I am concluding negotiations with a major agency in this country to get access to all their shootings. Additionally, I have completed negotiations with a major source in Central America and have been receiving shooting data from them for several months now. While most of their shootings involve ball ammunition, they are confirming the results I published for full metal jacket ammunition. Additionally, "STREET STOPPERS II" is in progress.
    “Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them”
    There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

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