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what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo?

206K views 89 replies 57 participants last post by  9mmPro 
#1 ·
i read this article:
Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

the part that talks about 9mm states this:
"I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains"

what are your thoughts on this? i have never heard this until i read this article.
 
#2 ·
It looks like the author of the article doesn't like the heavier grains since they didn't feed well in the guns sampled. I haven't had an issue with 147 grain rounds, but I tend to stick with 124 grain simply because I like Speer Gold Dot +P ammunition (Short Barrel). It feeds very well in my Glock 19 and Kahr PM9. It's also a very good performer.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Besides, shot placement is the most important factor...
 
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#3 ·
Far as I can tell, the anonymous author of that essay and I are in agreement. I noted with approval that his recommendations for 9mm, .38 spl and .357 ammo are what I carry. All of my research (this essay now included) and examination of ballistic performance confirms that Corbon DPX is a consistent, accurate and reliable round with superb expansion. The 115 - 125 grain velocities are so high that they deliver equivalent kinetic energy to heavier but slower rounds.

Like Ayoob, I go with #1 Buck for HD. I have tried many of the other items discussed, and at the range I practice with ball ammo in the above handgun calibers. It was painful (physically and monetarily) to shoot several boxes of DPX in the various guns because it's so expensive but you have to do that.

Tip: If you can find WWB +P JSP, it makes a very economical practice round that feels about the same as DPX.
 
#5 ·
I thought the article was very elementary, and regurgatated hogwash. People believe what they want, everyone thinks they know something. I totally disagree that the heavier 9mm bullets are not good. While I do like the +p 124 9mm bullets, I like the heavier +p 147 more. Yes, the much repeated "shot placement" is very important, but only if the bullet gets deep enough to damage a few things.
 
#6 ·
^^^^^^^ What he said.^^^^^^^

My thought was "How old is this article?"

The original 147 9mm hollowpoint was not designed to expand. The hollowpoint moved the center of gravity of the bullet for superior accuracy. It was developed for a particular group of people with a specific set of requirements ie. reliability and accuracy. When the gun "gurus" learned who the rounds were tailored for they became the newest "must have" item that quickly developed a reputation for failing to expand. Again, it was never designed to expand!

A close bud of mine was one of the operators this round was designed for. I asked him if the lack of expansion hindered him in any way. He explained the purpose of the round (above) and said expansion was not a design parameter. It had to be 100% reliable and supremely accurate. He ended with "expansion doesn't mean much when you shoot everyone in the head."

Reminds me of a Kid Rock song: "It ain't cocky if you can back it up."

The mantra "shot placement is key" is very important. Realistically, a hit with a non-optimal bullet that is 100% reliable beats the latest whiz-bang marketing idea that misses or mis-feeds. There has been A LOT of bullet development and design improvements over the past decade including the 147 9mm. BTW Buffalo Bore Ammo deserves a look.

IMHO Carry the biggest, heaviest hollowpoint that is 100% reliable that you can control. I carry 230gr JHP in .45 and 240gr JHP in my .44. YMMV
 
#57 ·
The early 147gr JHP 9mm loads did suck, they had dismal performance on the street. The current generation of 147gr bullets preform very well and have become my preferred load when carrying a 9mm.

Firearm Gun Trigger Starting pistol Revolver
I've still got several boxes of the Ranger 147 gr SXT as well, but I've also picked up a case of the newer T-series since seeing some ballistics testing on both. Gotta love that Ranger ammo!
 
#8 ·
I think ANY 9mm round HP will be acceptable.
Will some be definitely better, yes.
That said, I believe 124 grn. on up, Gold Dot , Corbon And Some Federal Tactical and Winchester Ranger line.
 
#9 ·
I believe that has to do with velocity in relation to expansion. The heavier loads are typically slower, resulting in less consistent expansion. I do, however, agree that the technology in the hollow point design has more than caught up to negate that factor.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to be shot with any of it.

Shot placement is definitely key, though. I like that quote about expansion doesn't matter if you shoot everyone in the head!
 
#41 ·
I believe that has to do with velocity in relation to expansion. The heavier loads are typically slower, resulting in less consistent expansion. I do, however, agree that the technology in the hollow point design has more than caught up to negate that factor.
Almost always the opposite is true; heavier loads tend to expand much more consistently than lighter loads.
 
#10 ·
"...the author of the article doesn't like the heavier grains..."

Grains has popped up in place of weight again!

No such thing as bullets with heavier grains. Takes 7000 grains to equal one pound. Always has. Always will. Some bullets might have more weight than others but the grain as a unit of weight measurement will remain the same.


I tend to utilize heavier bullets for most handgun chores and many rifle chores. The 147 grain 9mm load strikes a distinctly harder blow to my swinging disc target stand than any 9mm bullet of lesser weight. The stand was designed for use with .45 ACP. When struck with any .45 ACP load, it will pinwheel merrily. No 9mm will even flip a disc over once except for the 147 grain loading. I don't know how this would translate to stopping power effectiveness but the bullet weight is bound to aid in effective penetration.
 
#26 ·
???? i just read the book Stopping Power and it was very informative. do you know either of these guys?
 
#14 ·
The article referenced in the OP was perhaps relevant with the ammo availible during the Clinton regime. Not only is it woefully outdated, it also relies on bogus studies to reach its conclusions (iirc,besides M&S, it also references the fictional "Strasbourg Tests").

The second link in tokerblues' post is a lot more relevant now.
 
#17 ·
what are your thoughts for the best 9mm defensive ammo?
Just to keep it simple...........what are our troops using? Whatever our service members are using for their defensive loads in 9mm should be good enough for the rest of us and the best that can be found. Now you know how much we've been over-thinking things for so many years.
 
#20 ·
I just have not had any problems with any of the 147 gr or 124 gr 9mm ammo that I have shot over the years....The BG that gets a double tap COM won't complain that the bullet was to heavy or to light ...I don't think.......but there is always the "maybe"
 
#22 ·
As long as my gun will reliably feed them, either 124gr or 147gr rounds are fine with me. I still believe the greatest determination in any gun fight is shot placement, not caliber, round weight or magazine capacity. I'll take a single well placed hit with a .22 over a bunch of misses or grazing wounds with a .45 or anything else any day.
 
#27 ·
Personally? No.

But when their data turns up to be falsified...there's a problem.
 
#29 ·
I am sure this will bring about a multitude of flames, but here goes.
First of all, I believe there have been great strides in bullet technology, and it is not all hype.
But I believe marketing and psychological "leading" has taken the place of marksmanship and confidence. I believe some people rely on their choice of "Magic Bullet" enough that if they ran out and had to use "Ball", they would feel inadequate and inferior, and probably lose the fight. Discussions are great and a lot can be learned from them. I just don't believe we should lose sight of the fact that the gunman wins the fight, not some "magic bullet". I am not the best shot in the world, but I maintain the premise that if I do my part, my gun works, and the round in question goes "bang" correctly, I can persevere.

I do not have a problem carrying ball, LSWC, HP, FP, or a .22 for that matter. I may not be armed for all situations, but I AM armed and a force to be reckoned with.

The OP asked for thoughts, there they are,

Terry

Let the flames begin........
 
#31 ·
you can't argue that some rounds get the job done better than others.........but yes we all need the gun fighter/combat mindset if the crap hits the fan. and any weapon is better than no weapon......and one can argue that the mind is the greatest weapon.
 
#32 ·
Well, yes and no... I agree with you that a competant shooter will be able to take a bad guy down with HPs or FMJs, cause a lot of it is shot placement. You can shoot someone in the arm with a hollow point and they can still come at ya just like they would if you shot them with FMJs.

However, something to consider when choosing ammunition in a Self Defense gun is something thats gonna stop in your target. If you find yourself in a situation where you have to pull the trigger, you dont want that bullet passing through the target and hitting an innocent civilian. You wont be punished for protecting yourself from the bad guy, but you will be punished for harming/killing an innocent bystander.

Just something to consider.
 
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#34 ·
What I was saying was to not get hung up on things that would keep you from doing what you need to do when you need to do it. This would include thinking a "non magic bullet" will fail to do the job, or that only a "magic bullet" will not pass through the bad guy at the most inopportune time. Penetration, expansion, complete energy dump, or any of the other buzz words, can get you killed if you have doubts about what you need to do when it's required. We would all like to think we have a clear shot, with no possible collateral targets behind, but that is as guaranteed as anything else in life. Don't get hung up on such things as, "I can't possibly shoot through this guy, because my bullet maker said so". Basics get it done.

Terry
 
#37 ·
I did the water jug test filled with wet newspaper and 4 layers of denim.

I tested Gold dot 124 +P HP both regular and short barrel

I tested HSTs at 147

I tested Corbon DPX 115g +p

The Corbon beat the other 3 with 15 inch penetration and almost 3/4 inch expansion.

The HSTs were very close second

I used to carry Gold-dots....... I now carry Corbon DPX

Kahr K-9
 
#43 ·
The testing of the DPX that I've seen have been impressive - just like your observations.

A couple of things stopped me from using them:

First and foremost, I like to "standardize" my stuff - all of my 9mms get fed the same. :) Less chance of a stupid error on my part. :) With that in-mind, my SR9c doesn't feed the DPX with any semblance of reliability.

Second, in my shorter-barrel pistols, the DPX makes for a noticeably larger muzzle blast/flash.

Last is availability/cost. Although to some extent this isn't much of an issue for me (i.e. I tend to mail-order in-bulk, and I also run a budget reasonably well), when compared to others available, the DPX drops down a rung, again.

Now, like ArkhmAsylm said, that's just my personal opinion/preference - based on my own unique needs. YMMV. :)

And in all honesty, I think that the simple fact that the DPX made Dr. Roberts' list makes the round itself more than good enough for me, in terms of solely its terminal ballistics.
 
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